unbelieveble but true!!!!

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby ricbru » 06 Dec 2008, 11:05

Hello all,
today I just got a reply from US Department of Homeland security, who is replying to me after they got my request date 20 july 2007 (about 17 months ago). 8O :roll:
The reply states that after a diligent research done on the indexes (!!!) they stated me that my uncle, brother of my dad, Francesco Paolo BRUNO (aka Frank Paul BRUNO) never naturalized as a US citizen.
I remember when I was a boy his blue passport from USA, and it means that he was a US citizen, also Cathy found later for me on the microfilm his number of citizenship certificate.
Now my question is: how these people work in these offices?
I gave them the exact date and place of birth, he was born in Italy on 1930!!!
They sent me the same reply for my Nicholas BRUNO, brother of my grandpa, born in Italy on 1892 :evil:
I got his naturalization papers from local library in Monroe, Louisiana.
I'm astonished 8O to receive this kind of very late reply, we live almost on 2009 in the era of computer-internet- and so on, and still US government do give answers like that. :roll:
Thanks God there is a forum like IG where people do their most efforts to help each other!!!!
I would like to know if there is any comment or any experience like mine
Regards
Riccardo :lol:

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Dec 2008, 14:37

Dear Ricbru the USA has a history of deep mistrust of authority knowing too much of your business but all that has been swept away like fascism, communism and even capitalism!!!The government now knows everything about everybody and the can see you walking downthe street from space, walking down the street in cities and towns, monitor your telephones, internet choices, books you read, how much money you have and where the money is located...everything.

There is, however, a left over habit of keeping documents separated from state to state, county by county and city by city much like the anagrafe and Stato Civile BUT there is no centralized authority except for drivers licences by State. There really is no need for internal documents inthe USA except for birth certificates and people use drivers licences like an identity cards. Life was simpler and government interference in our lives was limited to income tax and licence renewals and so archives and records were always given low priority...something to avoid.

Because of this philosophy of government mistrust and lack of centralized authority, Federal and State Bureaucracies employees brought this attitude with them and if it involved anything foreign then it was already inferior or subversive and certainly not American and not very important to Americans.

This is the overall philosophy and so it boils down to who is in charge of what office your request is going to and are dealing with and where that office is located and the history of the area (western states are less than 100 years old and were wild even when italian immigrants first went west to the mines and building Railroads. People immigrated at NYC or Boston or New orleans and after that nobody needed any documents at all.

So the answer to your question is one of culture, practices, history of the place where you sent your request. Congressmen want people from their states to have jobs so thay put government offices in poor places in states far away from other agencies and offices in Washington DC or State capitals. Sometimes they create regional offices to make more work available and just make everything slow down (your case!!)....and after all, your just looking for documents that no one knows how important or not important they are. I hope this gives you an idea of what your dealing with.

Right now in Yonkers where I live you can get a passport from the Post office but each post office has their own rules of who is in charge, what hours they operate, when they open and close their passport windows. So you have to call the post offices in Yonkers to see which one is open and what they want to see before they give you the application. Some don't care and give you the application and tell you to read the instructions. A private company sends you the passport after they check with the government to see if it permitted to furnish you with a passport...

In short "e un casino" =Peter=

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby ricbru » 06 Dec 2008, 14:47

Thank you for updating me with the reality in USA government
bye Riccardo

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 06 Dec 2008, 15:59

ricbru wrote:Thank you for updating me with the reality in USA government
bye Riccardo


I am not certain that all, or even many, Americans would agree with Peter's view of our government... :)

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby matta » 06 Dec 2008, 16:14

Did you receive a letter of no record or a certificate of non-existence of naturalization?


If they sent a letter of no record, then it's possible that the naturalization record exists, just not in the USCIS database. If they send a certificate of non-existence of naturalization - well that's a problem.

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby ricbru » 06 Dec 2008, 16:22

I just received a certificate of non existence of naturalization from US Department of Homeland Security in Washington DC. About 10 months ago I got my uncle complete file from USCIS of Lee's Summit Missouri.
The complete file also contains his certificate of naturalization
I think both offices should work toghether with this, and not lieing because they have not methods while working
bye Riccardo

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Dec 2008, 21:25

Dear Johnnyonthespot. Your perspective is an opinion much like mine but having had the experience of working for the government, I do have an insiders perspective which has been borne out by Ricbru's experience which he outlined here.

I do not know what part of the country you come from but then again it probably doesn't matter since I have lived in many parts of the USA including lala land and it is my humble observation that once you leave NYC your camping out. =Peter=

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby tonyric » 07 Dec 2008, 02:13

PeterTimber wrote:Dear Johnnyonthespot. Your perspective is an opinion much like mine but having had the experience of working for the government, I do have an insiders perspective which has been borne out by Ricbru's experience which he outlined here.

I do not know what part of the country you come from but then again it probably doesn't matter since I have lived in many parts of the USA including lala land and it is my humble observation that once you leave NYC your camping out. =Peter=


Peter, with all due respect, while much of what you say is true (in my opinion) as a current employee of a government agency, I must say that there is much to disagree on. While much of what you say used to be true, in many parts of the government, this is no longer true. With that said, I do take deference to my living in the Boston area to be "camping out". lol

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby ricbru » 07 Dec 2008, 09:37

tonyric wrote:
PeterTimber wrote:Dear Johnnyonthespot. Your perspective is an opinion much like mine but having had the experience of working for the government, I do have an insiders perspective which has been borne out by Ricbru's experience which he outlined here.

I do not know what part of the country you come from but then again it probably doesn't matter since I have lived in many parts of the USA including lala land and it is my humble observation that once you leave NYC your camping out. =Peter=


Peter, with all due respect, while much of what you say is true (in my opinion) as a current employee of a government agency, I must say that there is much to disagree on. While much of what you say used to be true, in many parts of the government, this is no longer true. With that said, I do take deference to my living in the Boston area to be "camping out". lol


PLEASE STOP - THANK YOU
RICCARDO

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby PeterTimber » 07 Dec 2008, 13:39

Dear Tony Ric There is no scientific proof to our opinions on the internal workings of government agencies thruout the USA. Opinions are based upon personal experiences and observations such as what occurred to Ricbru.

=Peter=

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby matta » 07 Dec 2008, 15:31

ricbru wrote:I just received a certificate of non existence of naturalization from US Department of Homeland Security in Washington DC. About 10 months ago I got my uncle complete file from USCIS of Lee's Summit Missouri.
The complete file also contains his certificate of naturalization
I think both offices should work toghether with this, and not lieing because they have not methods while working
bye Riccardo


The interesting thing is that they are the same department. The USCIS is part of the Department of Homeland Security. The head office is in Washington DC, but the records are kept in Lee's Summit, MO (it is expensive to have warehouse space in Washington, DC).

So the same office sent you a naturalization certificate, then sent you a certificate of non-existence. That's really strange, but mistakes do happen sometimes.

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby ricbru » 07 Dec 2008, 15:34

From my point of view they do not know what they are doing, and they do not cooperate too much, this is an expense of money, time and trust
Riccardo

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby PeterTimber » 07 Dec 2008, 15:43

Ricbru the congressman from Missouri wanted to give his voters a place to work and so "I cancellieri" aranged for the transfer of the department that you dealt with from Washington DC to the midwest. The people there depend upon interpreting instructions friom Washington, DC. They could care less for any money they spend its only an excuse for favors between one congressman and the other. They could build a building inthe woods 100 miles away and they have to go 1500 miles in Missouri???

I already told you the story. Buona Fortuna. =Peter=

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby ricbru » 07 Dec 2008, 15:47

burocracy is a bad beast, sometimes is the same here in our italian government offices, but I want to be true, I never seen anything like this before
Riccardo

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Re: unbelieveble but true!!!!

Postby PeterTimber » 07 Dec 2008, 16:20

Dear Ricbru I am very sorry you had so much trouble. If you lived in the USA you would call the Congressmans office where you live and tell the secretary to tell the congressman to fix your problem. Then the congressman would get on the telephone and call the office in Missouri and get it all fixed fast. =Peter=


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