Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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gennattasio
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Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby gennattasio » 25 Jan 2009, 20:52

As evidence of no naturalization a census record is one of the requirements for dual cit. I want to make sure I'm ordering the correct doc as these copies are $65. How many census records do I need to present to the consulate and which ones? Does the census need any type of certification and is this a time sensitive doc? I don't want to order it now and then find out it can't be over a year old when presented.
My gf is on the 1910 census with his family, mother is listed as AL but it is in the wrong column, the AL is in the column for marital status, gf is listed as being born in Italy. The next census he is on is the 1920 with his wife and children, it says he is born in NY which he is not. The 1920 census that his mother and sisters appear on list them as AL. I've been unable to find my gf's 1930 census.
Help appreciated.

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby matta » 25 Jan 2009, 23:16

Where are you ordering from? The NARA certified copies are not $65. They take roughly a month to arrive (longer than naturalization documents but not as long as passenger records) and are not time sensitive.

The census that you need is one after the birth of your GF (so 1910 works) that shows his father as "AL" or "PA" (assuming your GF was born in the US).

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby gennattasio » 26 Jan 2009, 03:08

When there is no naturalization it must be proven with certification of no records from: 1. USCIS, 2. NARA, 3. the local County Court and 4. a Census Report from the US Dept. of Commerce. The Dept of Commerce charges $65.
My gf was born in Italy, his father died 4 years after they arrived in 1901 so he is not on any census. My gf first appears on the 1910 census with his mother and sisters as AL.

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby jcat » 26 Jan 2009, 03:37

you can try the free trial @ ancestry.com. I was able to view and print the 1930 census report there to find out my grandfathers citizenship status.
I'm not sure what you mean in regards to presenting a census report to the consulate? Do you mean ,which I believe you already stated, the "no records found" from USCIS? This is the document you will need to present to the consulate showing his status in regards to citizenship. are you sure he never did naturalize or is this the reason for searching the 1930 census report ?

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby matta » 26 Jan 2009, 03:58

jcat wrote:you can try the free trial @ <a href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3166187-10456885" TARGET="_blank">Ancestry.com</a>. I was able to view and print the 1930 census report there to find out my grandfathers citizenship status.
I'm not sure what you mean in regards to presenting a census report to the consulate? Do you mean ,which I believe you already stated, the "no records found" from USCIS? This is the document you will need to present to the consulate showing his status in regards to citizenship. are you sure he never did naturalize or is this the reason for searching the 1930 census report ?


Some consulates want a census as part of proof that a person didn't naturalize. It's a really bad policy, though, as the census was likely filled out by a neighbor or child (since the census workers came during the day when most men were working) and is frequently incorrect (and impossible to correct).

Either way, instead of the US Department of Commerce, request a copy of the Census pages from NARA. $40 and comes in a month. That's what everyone else uses.

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby jcat » 26 Jan 2009, 04:40

it surely can seem like a maze at times, with all of the inaccuracies over the many years of obtaining info, throwing a wrench into things.Those poor people registering all of the many people coming over here. trying to understand the names, names of towns, etc. on the NY passenger list My grandfathers birth location is listed as , Catansaco instead of Catanzaro as Province and Mayesano instead of Magisano(the town) as birth location other:
Thankfully you are not required to provide the ships manifest and passenger list too! I've received his birth certificate in December(within two weeks) from the town and his birthdate was off by one day. I have requested an amended birth certificate and now it has been six weeks since my request and waiting. It's a good thing my appointment is in December in Miami. It could go to the wire !!

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby mler » 26 Jan 2009, 14:27

No need to worry too much about a birth certificate that is off by one day or even several days. The Italian birth certificate lists the date the birth was registered by the midwife, which could be one day to a week later than the actual birth date. This may be the reason for the delay in processing your request.

My husband's registration was three days later, but he adopted the registration date as his birthday. Most did not, and the Italian consulate should be aware of this.

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby jcat » 26 Jan 2009, 15:03

thanks for chiming in mler. I Thought the same at first in regards to the d.o.b. being off by a day. I have a copy of an old birth certificate that was sent to me by an aunt for my grandfather. When I requested a copy from his township in Italy they sent one to me lightning fast at no charge, only to see that the old birth certificate(a copy) has the actual d.o.b. as ventiaprile1885 & the new certificate sent from the town was Dicianoveaprile 1885. his marriage,and death certificates state dob as 20,aprile 1885. The officer at the consulate in Miami has already stated to me that I need to amend the date to read ventiaprile 1885. I wonder if they would accept the old copies provided to me by my aunt ?I have already sent notice back to the town along with the copy of the old birth certificate showing proof of his birthdate and also to request his citizenship papers which were not included with the birth certificate they first sent as I did request those also.My question is, if the town does not amend do you think the old copies will suffice as documentation for the consulate? I have all of the birth, citizenship, and passport copies of old for both my grandparents on hand. I will wait, as my request to amend may take longer and to obtain the citizenship papers also(It has been six weeks since my second request pointing out the error) If not, I will call the Consulate to explain the situation. Like I said, there is still plenty of time and I will have faith that my Town in Italy will come through !

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby mler » 26 Jan 2009, 16:06

You do have plenty of time, and I'm betting everything will come in before your appointment. You're really not asking for an amendment, only a correction of their clerical error since your aunt's copy shows the correct date.

You say your aunt sent you a copy of the original certificate. Does she have the original? If so, that is all you need (no matter how old it is).

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby jcat » 26 Jan 2009, 16:24

That's true, as to being a correction, not amended.I don't know for sure if My aunt does have the original but I do not believe she will part with it, and she resides in another state.I wouldn't ask that of her as it is my assumption that it will be needed at the consulate to forward and be kept at the town in Italy.

my apologies to gennattasio for getting off track on your original post.hope you have located the 1930 census!

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby mler » 26 Jan 2009, 17:02

Not all consulates keep Italian records. I specifically asked in both NY and Newark that my grandfather's Italian birth certificate be returned to me, and they were fine with that. They simply kept a copy. Remember that this birth certificate is already on file in Italy so there's no need for the original to be sent back to them. Some have reported that the consulate kept the original, but they shouldn't, and if you ask for it to be returned, I doubt it will be an issue.

I also apologize gennattasio. Do check NARA for the census data. I went into the NARA office, and they showed me how to locate the file on microfiche. Then, one of the staff members printed it out and certified it on the spot. I don't recall the cost, but I'm sure it was less than $10.

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby jcat » 26 Jan 2009, 17:57

thanks for the insight and suggestions mler. Actually, your right, the only certificates needed to go to the township in Italy are the US documents.
(w/Apostilles of course) I have just submitted my request for these through the NYS Dept. of Health (the most expensive part, so far) and I will be sure to request that the consulate return the Italian Birth certificate & Citizenship papers, once I do get them again, upon completeing my appointment. I am enjoying the process very much and must admit it is becoming a bit of an obsession......

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby gennattasio » 27 Jan 2009, 17:09

I already have copies of all my census records, a printed copy from Ancestry or NARA is not acceptable for dual cit. The consulate wants the census record from the Dept. of Commerce. I agree, the census records are full of errors, don't know why this is a requirement but it is.

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby jcat » 27 Jan 2009, 17:48

understood, as the census reports only will give info regarding status as far as citizenship is concerned, and not acceptable to present to the consulate. So, which direction are you going in regards to proof of naturalization or No records found ?

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Re: Census record from Dept. of Commerce help please

Postby gennattasio » 27 Jan 2009, 21:45

I've already received no records found letters from USCIS & NARA and sent for certification of no record found. I've searched the Southern district of NY courts and there are no records there either but I need certification of that. The consulate wants 3 certifications of no records. It's much easier if your family naturalized.


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