New Italian Law March 2009

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New Italian Law March 2009

Postby ItalianFood » 22 Mar 2009, 19:57

read it here:
Code: Select all
http://www.immigrazioneoggi.it/daily_news/2009/marzo/06_1.html




maybe someone who understands Italian could translate it?
the BabelFish translation is:

Italian citizenship: it must be recognized also to the descendants of the Italians married with aliens before 1948. The United Sections of the Cassation extend the right to the acknowledgment of the Italian citizenship also to the descendants of those women had who it lost as a result of wedding with an alien happened before 1948. The old law on the Italian citizenship of 1912 established that the women maritate with an alien lost their citizenship, with the ulterior consequence not to be able to transmit it to jure sanguinis to theirs descendants. After the entrance in vigor of the Constitution the norm has only been declared incostituzionale but the effects of the pronunce of the Constitutional Court of 1975 and the 1983 had been stopped to the date of 1 January of 1948. Nothing to make for the descendants of the women who had married with aliens before that date and that they had lost the Italian citizenship. Now, as a result of a pronounced sentence from the United Sections of the Cassation the slid week, this temporal limit has been swept via, with the consequence that also the descendants of the Italians who had lost the citizenship, as a result of the wedding with a stipulated foreign national before 1948, and independently from the will of the ancestor, has straight to buy back the Italian citizenship. (R.M.)
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby mler » 22 Mar 2009, 21:00

My Italian is limited, but I think it refers to a situation in which a woman (before 1948) lost Italian citizenship by virtue of marriage to a foreigner. This is not the rule that prohibited an Italian woman from passing citizenship before 1948.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby elba » 22 Mar 2009, 23:53

This is what it actually says:


Translation:

Italian Citizenship: It must be recognised also by the the descendants of Italians married to foreigners before 1948.

The United Section of Appeal extends the right to recognition of Italian Citizenship also to the descendants of those women who had lost it following their marriage to a foreigner occurring before 1948.
The old law on Italian Citizenship of 1912 established that women married to a foreigner lost their citizenship, with the later consequence of being unable to transfer it through the 'blood line' (jure sanguinis) to their descendants.

Only after it's entry into the contstitution was the principle declared unconstitutional but the effects of the judgement of the Constitutional Court of 1975 and of 1983 were stopped at the date 1st january 1948. Nothing could be done for the descendants of the women who were married to foreigners prior to that date and who had lost their Italian Citizenship.
Now, following a judgement pronounced by the United Section of Appeal last week, this time clause has been swept away, with the result that even the descendants of Italians who had lost their Citizenship, following marriage to a foreign citizen, drawn up and agreed before 1948, and indipendantly from the wishes of the ancestor, have the right to regain Italian Citizenship




This now, as I see it, begs the very important question about what constitutes a 'foreigner'

Hypothetical situation:

Italian woman moves to the USA in 1946 and marries an 'ex Italian Citizen' who is now an American citizen. So he IS a foreigner, irrespective of when he renounced his Italian Citizenship - right?

So even though both parents may have been 'born' in Italy, the man (father), at the time of the marriage and the birth WAS a foreign national!
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby ItalianFood » 23 Mar 2009, 00:17

heres my situation.

1.GF born in Italy 1882 (hes an Italian citizen)
2.GF moves to usa and becomes naturalized usa citizen in 1906.
3.GM born in NY to 2 Italian born (not naturalized) parents.(she's an Italian citizen)
4.GM and GF marry in 1909.GM loses citizenship by marriage to a naturalized ex-Italian citizen.

fast foward to march 2009.
1.GM has Italian citizenship restored via this new law.
2.the law says her decendants are also reinstated.
3.my mother born 1920 is now a Italian citizen??
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby ItalianFood » 23 Mar 2009, 00:24

"The United Section of Appeal extends the right to recognition of Italian Citizenship also to the descendants of those women who had lost it following their marriage to a foreigner occurring before 1948."

My mother and myself ARE decendants "of a woman who lost her citizenship" as a result of marriage before 1948.


so.....i think i now qualify.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby elba » 23 Mar 2009, 01:06

ItalianFood wrote:heres my situation.

1.GF born in Italy 1882 (hes an Italian citizen)
2.GF moves to usa and becomes naturalized usa citizen in 1906.
3.GM born in NY to 2 Italian born (not naturalized) parents.(she's an Italian citizen)
4.GM and GF marry in 1909.GM loses citizenship by marriage to a naturalized ex-Italian citizen.

fast foward to march 2009.
1.GM has Italian citizenship restored via this new law.
2.the law says her decendants are also reinstated.
3.my mother born 1920 is now a Italian citizen??


Well it certainly looks like it doesn't it.... best ask the consulate.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby elba » 23 Mar 2009, 01:10

ItalianFood wrote:"The United Section of Appeal extends the right to recognition of Italian Citizenship also to the descendants of those women who had lost it following their marriage to a foreigner occurring before 1948."

My mother and myself ARE decendants "of a woman who lost her citizenship" as a result of marriage before 1948.


so.....i think i now qualify.


Yes it does look as if you do - you have the right to recognition! But best check with your Consulate.

Oh, I think this verdict of the old law being unconstitutional is going to make a lot of people happy!
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby fiy123 » 23 Mar 2009, 03:05

If im understanding this correctly before this admendment the rule was...

"A woman born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948)."

but now it would say...

"A woman born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship from her father or mother and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948)."

right?
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby mler » 23 Mar 2009, 04:01

I'm sorry, but I think you are misreading this law. It states that an Italian woman who lost citizenship before 1948 by virtue of marriage to a foreigner now has that citizenship restored.

So, for example, if a woman married a foreign national in 1940, she lost her citizenship, and future children could not obtain citizenship from her line. This has now changed. Since she is now deemed a citizen, she can transfer her citizenship. It does NOT, however, state anywhere in this ruling that she can transfer her now regained citizenship to a child born before 1948.

I see nothing here that would lead one to believe that the 1948 ruling has been rescinded.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby ItalianFood » 23 Mar 2009, 04:22

haha....legalese....and i thought american lawyers had a monopoly on brain twisting language.you can read it 6 times and still its not crystal clear.

"Now, following a judgement pronounced by the United Section of Appeal last week, this TIME CLAUSE has been SWEPT AWAY, with the result that even the DECENDANTS of Italians who had lost their Citizenship, following marriage to a foreign citizen, drawn up and agreed BEFORE 1948, and indipendantly from the wishes of the ancestor, have the right to regain Italian Citizenship"

i bet if i asked 6 different consulates i would get 6 different answers.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby mler » 23 Mar 2009, 04:26

Probably right. :(
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby mler » 23 Mar 2009, 04:31

I guess I'm reading this as a limited modification of the 1912 law that was not changed until 1948. The ruling specifically states that for a woman to automatically lose citizenship because of marriage is unconstitutional. The loss of citizenship also affected her descendents. This has been changed.

What I don't see, though, is any statement saying that the law prohibiting women from transferring citizenship (before it was changed in 1948) is also unconstitutional.

I sure hope, though, that your interpretation is correct; it would open the door to so many people.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby idmaclean » 23 Mar 2009, 04:45

I am following this over on expats as well:

I am a little confused.

did my grandmother, she was an Italian through her father, lose her citizenship by way of marrying a US citizen (my grandfather naturalized before he married her)

this doesn't affect me, but it is confusing.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby ItalianFood » 23 Mar 2009, 04:48

to idmaclean:

your GM married a us citizen (formerly an Italian citizen) and she lost her Italian citizenship in that marriage. she now has it back.
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Re: New Italian Law March 2009

Postby idmaclean » 23 Mar 2009, 04:51

really?!

so before I was not eligible for recognition?

now I am?

get out!

my mother also married a US citizen. you are telling me now she has it back??

she was born 1/5/48.

I have already had very good luck pursuing this matter so far
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