Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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donnawright
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Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby donnawright » 27 Mar 2009, 16:21

Background: Today I contacted the county where my GM / GF (mother's parents) would have naturalized and they show only naturalization of a son who came over with this family. Can I surmise, then, that the GM & GF never naturalized? There are no notations on ellisisland.org records and 1930 census shows them as aliens (they came over 1905 and 1912). They also never left that ohio county; I assume they would have naturalized at the county court. Their son who naturalized did so in that same county court.

Current question: My mother was born here in 1914. Is my understanding correct that she had dual citizenship if her parents never naturalized? With that, do I also? I was born 1949.

I did some reading but did not find this answer. I hope someone can answer.

Next and biggest question: Tell me why I would want or need dual citizenship. I don't know enough about this privilege.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby jwazevedo » 27 Mar 2009, 18:39

I am at the same stage of research as you are, so take my answers as provisional until more experienced members weigh in.

Regarding the naturalization, I believe that most consulates require a record search through the USCIS (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD). If your grandparents did not naturalize, the request would result in a "no record", which you can take to the consulate as part of your application package.

Like your mother, mine was born to Italian immigrants to the US, and like you, I was born after 1948; I understand from this forum and elsewhere (e.g. Italiamerica.org) that our mothers were therefore unrecognized Italian citizens, and that therefore we are too.

As for your last question, I trust that by the time we finish accumulating our documents for the application we'll know in our hearts whether we want to go through with it and why.

Best,
Jerry

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby donnawright » 27 Mar 2009, 20:26

This is from Italamerica.com
Italian citizenship is granted by birth through the paternal line (with no limit on the number of generations)
or through the maternal line (for individuals born after January 1, 1948).

If you were born in any country where citizenship is acquired by birth, and any one of the situations listed below pertains to you,
you may be considered an Italian citizen. For each category all conditions must be met.

Here is number 4 in the list and the one I think applies to me.

4) Your mother was born in your native country, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

How would we know if my mother renounced her right to Italian citizenship? As I see it, she was a dual-citizen by having an Italian-born father (who I don't think ever naturalized) and American via her birth in this country.... right or wrong?

And where does that leave me???? Do I qualify or not?
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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby jwazevedo » 27 Mar 2009, 21:41

Yes, number 4 is our friend.

The way I understand it, renouncing Italian citizenship is a formal process, and your mother would have had to have gone to a consulate and filled out some forms and sworn that she was renouncing. I assume you can no longer ask your mother. Same here. But why would they have bothered to do it, and wouldn't we have known if they had taken such a legal step? It seems likely that we would. I'm not sure if there's another way to find out. Someone else can chime in on that.

For me, I'm hanging my hat on number 4 and proceeding with the application. And if I qualify, you do too.

Best,
Jerry

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby mler » 27 Mar 2009, 22:21

Your mom didn't renounce her Italian citizenship; I doubt anyone really did. In fact, until recently most people were unaware that they even had Italian citizenship. :D

But Jerry is right. You will need to provide proof, on the federal level, that your grandfather (his is the record that matters) never naturalized. That means a USCIS request.

People seek Italian citizenship for different reasons. Some plan to live, work, study or retire in the EU, and Italian citizenship makes this easy. Even if you do not intend to do so yourself, it opens up the options for future generations. Some do it simply for sentimental reasons--an acknowledgment of our heritage. Whatever the reason, it's nice to know we have this option thanks to Italy's liberal citizenship policy.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby donnawright » 28 Mar 2009, 03:33

I've had a most interesting day. On the web site italamerica.com is a lot of music of southern Italy. Enrico Caruso sang along with other names I do not know. One song was the tarantella which brought me back to my wedding in 1969 when my dad cut the rug with a neighbor -- fingers over the head while the other spinned, **SPAM** tossed aside and a noisy crowd having a great time and jumping in. It was a wonderful Italian wedding. The whole neighborhood came. I was 7 before I knew all grammas didn't speak only Italian. The people, the food, the family... our kids should be so lucky. Just appreciating .....
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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby donnawright » 12 Apr 2009, 12:54

A question about the earlier post above.

This is from Italamerica.com
Italian citizenship is granted by birth through the paternal line (with no limit on the number of generations)
or through the maternal line (for individuals born after January 1, 1948).

What does it mean, with no limit on the number of generations?

Also, it looks like I qualify through my mother (as described above also). Does this mean that my children and grand children also qualify through me?
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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby mler » 12 Apr 2009, 13:14

For today's applicants, it often means going back several generations--parent, grandparent, greatgrandparent, greatgreatgrandparent--and it's permissible to do this as long as the citizenship line is never broken.

In reality, however, we all go back only one generation. Your mother obtained citizenship from her father, you obtained it from your mother, your children obtain it from you, their children obtain it from them, etc. So the short answer is YES, your children and grandchildren also qualify.

However, I must return to an earlier point. It is essential that you get that "no record" letter from the federal government in order to proceed with your application. It takes a while to get this letter, and in the interim you can begin to gather, apostille, translate and amend (if necessary) the other documents you will need.

If your children live in the same consular jurisdiction as you, it may be possible for you all to apply together, so you can use one set of family documents. Check with your consulate to see if it is feasible to do this; some limit the number of people who can come in together. If your grandchildren are still minors, they will be included in their parent's application.

It took me several years, too, to realize that all grandparents didn't speak Italian :D , and it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that they weren't speaking Italian at all, but instead spoke a strange hybrid of dialect and English. I do miss those days, and I miss them too.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby teddi » 18 Apr 2009, 06:58

jwazevedo wrote:Yes, number 4 is our friend.

The way I understand it, renouncing Italian citizenship is a formal process, and your mother would have had to have gone to a consulate and filled out some forms and sworn that she was renouncing.

No, prior to 1992, the mere act of naturalizing abroad (even involuntarily) constituted renunciation of Italian citizenship. After 1992 one needed to file a formal declaration of renunciation with the Italian consulate.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby mler » 18 Apr 2009, 11:26

teddi wrote:
jwazevedo wrote:Yes, number 4 is our friend.

The way I understand it, renouncing Italian citizenship is a formal process, and your mother would have had to have gone to a consulate and filled out some forms and sworn that she was renouncing.

No, prior to 1992, the mere act of naturalizing abroad (even involuntarily) constituted renunciation of Italian citizenship. After 1992 one needed to file a formal declaration of renunciation with the Italian consulate.

Actually, you and jwazevedo are both correct. The mere act of naturalization does indeed constitute renunciation, but Jerry was referring to the renunciation of a U.S. born child of an Italian citizen. For a native-born American citizen, renunciation of jure sanguinis Italian citizenship is only possible through a formal process at the consulate.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby teddi » 18 Apr 2009, 18:37

For a native-born American citizen, renunciation of jure sanguinis Italian citizenship is only possible through a formal process at the consulate.

Yes, a person with US citizenship by jure soli would definitely not need to naturalize to become a US citizen. If their Italian parent naturalized, it would definitely not affect their Italian citizenship jure sanguinis.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby Romano1970 » 14 May 2009, 21:21

I am working on this as well. When I asked the Italian embassy in NY they advised me of the following.

If my father was an american citizen (which he was) then the next step is to my grandfather. They advised he would have had to NOT renounce his Italian citizen ship ( Which he did not, he was a registered alien).

The documents I would need are the following.

My Fathers Birth certificate and Death certificate
My grandfathers Birth and death certificate

Once I have all of these then I can take them to the Italian Embassy and file.

Here is a link.

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Italy ... itizenship
Michael Romano

Chi va piano va sano e va lontano

Those who go slowly, go safely and go far

Looking for family history in Piazza Armerina, Aidone, and Musomelli Sicily.
Names researching: Romano, Nigrelli, Ristagno, Piazza Maida Triolo.

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Re: Basic Education Request about Dual Citizenship

Postby Romano1970 » 14 May 2009, 21:41

That link was not he right one.

Here is the right one.

http://www.italiandualcitizenship.com/
Michael Romano

Chi va piano va sano e va lontano

Those who go slowly, go safely and go far

Looking for family history in Piazza Armerina, Aidone, and Musomelli Sicily.
Names researching: Romano, Nigrelli, Ristagno, Piazza Maida Triolo.


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