New York Birth Certificate

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abruscino
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New York Birth Certificate

Postby abruscino » 14 Jul 2009, 02:26

I would very much appreciate any information or suggestions regarding the following scenario:

I attempted to get my grandfather's (Camillo Bruscino) birth certificate from New York (state searched 1906-08, city searched 1907-08) with no record found by either the state or New York City.

Most documents (ship manifest of 1928, marriage license of 1934, social security records, and the family) state my grandfather was born on 12/18/1907 in Westbury, NY. The only exception being that his baptismal certificate (NY church) stated that he was born on 1/15/1908 in Queens, NY.

I understand the answer could be as simple as that it was never filed. But if that is the case, how then would he have proved his American citizenship when he came back to the USA in 1928 (his family went back to Italy around 1910, two or three years after his birth)? Also wouldn't the city where he obtained his marriage license have asked to see his birth certificate? What about the social security office?

I'm just very confused about the situation. Is there something I'm missing? Are there any other avenues to search? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!!
Researching the following surnames:

Bruscino, Palma, Arena, Cozzolino, Somma, Mariana, and Panico.

All in the vicinity of Saviano, Napoli, Campania.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby elba » 14 Jul 2009, 07:09

Just a thought Aruscino....
Could it be that his birth WAS 12/18/1907 in Westbury, NY, and the baptismal certificate is just that - a certificate showing that he was BAPTISED on 1/15/1908 in Queens, NY.

Look at the calendars for those two months: Born on Wednesday (18th) - the next Wednesday is Christmas Day and the following Wednesday the 1st January 1908. Both weeks a very busy time for the church, so 'maybe' they decided to baptise him on the 15 January... exactly 3 weeks later!


1907



1908
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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby ditota » 14 Jul 2009, 11:37

Camillo BRUSCINO
Birth Date: 18 Dec 1907
Death Date: 17 Mar 1991
Social Security Number: 120-14-0654
State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: New York

Death Residence Localities
ZIP Code: 85017
Localities: Phoenix, Maricopa, Arizona
Albert De Tota (di Tota)

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby suanj » 14 Jul 2009, 13:26

Hi Abruscino, I know not if you searched also the 1910 census.. it could be interesting....

however in 8 jan 1906 by "The Brooklyn Daily Eagle", I found a new, by a convenyence in Nassau County, of Michael Mickey and wife to James and Theresa Bruscino 1. block man City of New Cassel, New Cassel, H
http://fultonhistory.com/Newspapers%207 ... ehtml&.pdf
maybe New Cassel could be also the birthplace of your Camillo
hoping helpful, regards,
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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby abruscino » 14 Jul 2009, 16:01

To Elba: The certificate states that he was baptized on 5/15/1908. The church even contacted me to say that they had a birthdate different than what I had given them (12/18/1907) and that their date (1/15/1908) would appear on the certificate.

To Ditota: Yes, that's the correct SS info.

To Suanj: Yes I did search the 1910 census and I could not find them (they had probably returned to Italy by that time). His parents were Giuseppe Bruscino and Rosa Arena and his mother did not arrive in the USA until May of 1906 (father arrived in July 1901 and again in March 1906).

I appreciate all the info, and eliminating the possibilities that the birth certificate was not filed, and maybe the state and NYC employees missed it, how would someone have proved their citizenship (or birthdate) back then with no birth certificate?
Researching the following surnames:



Bruscino, Palma, Arena, Cozzolino, Somma, Mariana, and Panico.



All in the vicinity of Saviano, Napoli, Campania.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby mler » 14 Jul 2009, 17:07

That's a good question. I have had some difficultly locating my grandmother's birth certificate, and the NYC web page indicates that many births in the city were never registered.

My guess is that in the early part of the twentieth century things were considerably more lax than they are today. Perhaps all that was needed was a statement by the parents, and once the birth was listed on an official record, that record could be used to establish the birth date for subsequent records. I guess they had no reason to fear identity theft in those days.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby vj » 14 Jul 2009, 17:16

abruscino wrote:... I attempted to get my grandfather's (Camillo Bruscino) birth certificate from New York (state searched 1906-08, city searched 1907-08) with no record found by either the state or New York City ... What about the social security office? ...


Hi!
This is from an article on genealogy. com:
http://www.genealogy.com/tip3.html

The implementation of the Social Security Act in 1937 stipulated that applicants fill out forms requiring data about their birth, family status, and employment. Not only were millions of files created for members of our families, it forced many of our relatives, who until then had no recorded birth, to go to the local county clerks or state office of vital statistics to file a delayed birth certificate. Do not overlook these delayed birth certificates in your research.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby abruscino » 14 Jul 2009, 18:35

mler wrote:Perhaps all that was needed was a statement by the parents, and once the birth was listed on an official record, that record could be used to establish the birth date for subsequent records.


To Mler: What exactly would be recognized as an "official record?"

To Vj: The article you referenced is very interesting. How would someone go about finding a delayed birth certificate? Would it not be found by the state or NYC in a search? If not, would I need to contact North Hempstead or Nassau County (if actually born in Westbury, NY), and who would I contact if he was actually born in Queens, NY?

Also, I ordered his SS-5 from Social Security online last week, so in about a month I'll have the date he applied for his card (if that makes a difference).

Thanks!!
Researching the following surnames:



Bruscino, Palma, Arena, Cozzolino, Somma, Mariana, and Panico.



All in the vicinity of Saviano, Napoli, Campania.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby suanj » 14 Jul 2009, 19:25

abruscino wrote:To Elba: The certificate states that he was baptized on 5/15/1908. The church even contacted me to say that they had a birthdate different than what I had given them (12/18/1907) and that their date (1/15/1908) would appear on the certificate.

To Ditota: Yes, that's the correct SS info.

To Suanj: Yes I did search the 1910 census and I could not find them (they had probably returned to Italy by that time). His parents were Giuseppe Bruscino and Rosa Arena and his mother did not arrive in the USA until May of 1906 (father arrived in July 1901 and again in March 1906).

I appreciate all the info, and eliminating the possibilities that the birth certificate was not filed, and maybe the state and NYC employees missed it, how would someone have proved their citizenship (or birthdate) back then with no birth certificate?

abruscino, I believe that Camillo, when back with family in Italy, well all family was registered in the resident registry and also the Camillo birth was registered in italian common birth registry as a italian born in foreign country... that was normal... and the birth registration was made ALWAYS by birth certificate of foreign country.... maybe a request of a birth certificate in Italy can show the right data abt your ancestor's birth... the only thing necessary is to know when they came back in Italy, and when they registered the Camillo birth in Italy, maybe between 1910/2 .. I know of some similar search and the child was registered also after 1 or 2 years that he was back in Italy... that because the civil records officer needing of ORIGINAL birth act from foreign country... also to request, for same thing, the military papers in Italy can show the right birthdate and birthplace...
just a suggestion,
regards,
suanj
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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby abruscino » 14 Jul 2009, 21:19

To Suanj:

Exactly how and what would I request from the comune?

Would family who live in the comune have an easier time getting that record?

Thanks!!
Researching the following surnames:



Bruscino, Palma, Arena, Cozzolino, Somma, Mariana, and Panico.



All in the vicinity of Saviano, Napoli, Campania.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby mler » 14 Jul 2009, 22:07

I have no idea if that was the case at all; I was only speculating. Vj's suggesting to check the delayed records is an excellent one.

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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby suanj » 15 Jul 2009, 05:02

abruscino wrote:To Suanj:

Exactly how and what would I request from the comune?

Would family who live in the comune have an easier time getting that record?

Thanks!!

you must know almost the italian town where Camillo's parents came from; Camillo back in USA in 1928; a 1928 trip is crossed:
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Camillo Bruceino
Name: Camillo Bruceino
Arrival Date: 25 Apr 1928
Estimated Birth Year: 1907
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Ship Name: Presidente Wilson
Search Ship Database: View the Presidente Wilson in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
NATIVITY: New York
Line: 3
Microfilm Serial: T715
Microfilm Roll: T715_4253
Birth Location: New York
Birth Location Other: Westbury
Page Number: 224

the second was in 20 Jun 1928 ...
he sure made almost the medical check up for militar service, and he must be listed in the military documents of birth province...
suanj
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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby abruscino » 15 Jul 2009, 05:11

Suanj, his parents came from Saviano, NA.
Researching the following surnames:



Bruscino, Palma, Arena, Cozzolino, Somma, Mariana, and Panico.



All in the vicinity of Saviano, Napoli, Campania.

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suanj
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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby suanj » 15 Jul 2009, 09:33

Hi abruscino, the Camillo passport was relayed in Napoli the 27 march 1928, so he had italian passport in 1928... and for to have it he was italian citizen born in foreign country.... you can ask this certificate: ESTRATTO DI ATTO DI NASCITA-Modello Plurilingue to:
Ufficio di Stato Civile
Piazzale Enrico De Nicola
80039 Saviano (NA)
Italy
writing so:

Oggetto: Estratto atto di nascita in Modello Plurilingue

Spett.le Ufficio di Stato Civile,
il sottoscritto............ ( your complete name) cittadino statunitense di origini italiane, con la presente cortesemente richiede di poter ricevere a fini genealogia familiare,
Estratto atto di nascita in Modello Plurilingue del proprio nonno

BRUSCINO Camillo nato nello Stato di New York, USA il 18 Dicembre 1907, figlio di... ( first name of Camillo's father), ma ritornato in Italia a Saviano verso il 1910 e indi da Saviano riemigrato definitivamente negli USA nel 1928.
Ritenendo che il suo atto di nascita sia stato trascritto anche presso codesto spett.le Comune, con la presente si spera di poter ricevere quanto in oggetto.
In attesa di riscontro è gradita l'occasione per porgere i più distinti saluti,
......................your name
......................your complete and exact address
....................your email
____________________________________________________________-
best regards,
suanj
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abruscino
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Re: New York Birth Certificate

Postby abruscino » 15 Jul 2009, 15:59

Suanj, I very much appreciate the information and letter, I will definitely make the request.

Thanks again!!
Researching the following surnames:



Bruscino, Palma, Arena, Cozzolino, Somma, Mariana, and Panico.



All in the vicinity of Saviano, Napoli, Campania.


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