Father's first name listed differently on certain certi

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phil100a
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Father's first name listed differently on certain certi

Postby phil100a » 07 Sep 2009, 22:31

Is this a problem?

My Dad's given name was Giuseppe (on his birth certificate); his name on his marriage, divorce, and death certificates is listed as "Joseph" (the English translation for Giuseppe)

Thanks in advance...

P

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby jwazevedo » 08 Sep 2009, 01:54

Hi Phil,

It depends on the consulate. Some consulates seem to require all names match up. Others, like the Vancouver consulate where I filed, may accept a case of Italian/English translation. Worse case, you'll need to amend the certificate. Check with the consulate in the jurisdiction where you'll be filing. They will be able to advise you.

Good luck,
Jerry

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby phil100a » 08 Sep 2009, 01:56

btw, that was his "first" name. His last name is consistent. He called himself "Joseph P." for ofirst and middle (there was no given middle name on his birth certificate, either).

I'm thinking that this is a MINOR discrepancy, and of no import, but it may not be; if so, I will have to go to NY records correction and have all related documents corrected with his "birth" name. I don't want my application help up because of something like this.

Again, any help or advice appreciated.

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corrado
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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby corrado » 08 Sep 2009, 02:31

I had this problem and antonio- anthony too. The chicago consulate accepted the auto certification of sameperson. I'll put it here in case you want to use it.


DICHIARAZIONE SOSTITUTIVA DI CERTIFICAZIONE
(Art. 46 D.P.R. 28 dicembre 2000, n. 445)

Il sottoscritto Corrado, Jon Alexander

nato a Chicago, Illinois, USA on 1/10/ 1952
residente a 2176 W. Windsor Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60625 USA

consapevole delle sanzioni penali, nel caso di dichiarazioni non veritiere e falsità negli atti, richiamate
dall’art. 76 D.P.R. 445 del 28/12/2000
DICHIARA

che la persona identificata come Giuseppe Corrado nel certificato di nascita e la persona indicata come Joseph P. Corrado sono la stessa persona

30 Maggio , 2009

Dichiaro, altresì, di essere informato, ai sensi e per gli effetti di cui all'art. 13 del D.Lgs. 196/2003 che
I dati personali raccolti saranno trattati, anche con strumenti informatici, esclusivamente nell'ambito del procedimento per il quale la presente dichiarazione viene resa.


IL DICHIARANTE

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Donald66
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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby Donald66 » 12 Sep 2009, 01:22

The code/statutes stated are referencing Italian law, correct? :?:


corrado wrote:I had this problem and antonio- anthony too. The chicago consulate accepted the auto certification of sameperson. I'll put it here in case you want to use it.


DICHIARAZIONE SOSTITUTIVA DI CERTIFICAZIONE
(Art. 46 D.P.R. 28 dicembre 2000, n. 445)

Il sottoscritto Corrado, Jon Alexander

nato a Chicago, Illinois, USA on 1/10/ 1952
residente a 2176 W. Windsor Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60625 USA

consapevole delle sanzioni penali, nel caso di dichiarazioni non veritiere e falsità negli atti, richiamate
dall’art. 76 D.P.R. 445 del 28/12/2000
DICHIARA

che la persona identificata come Giuseppe Corrado nel certificato di nascita e la persona indicata come Joseph P. Corrado sono la stessa persona

30 Maggio , 2009

Dichiaro, altresì, di essere informato, ai sensi e per gli effetti di cui all'art. 13 del D.Lgs. 196/2003 che
I dati personali raccolti saranno trattati, anche con strumenti informatici, esclusivamente nell'ambito del procedimento per il quale la presente dichiarazione viene resa.


IL DICHIARANTE

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corrado
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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby corrado » 12 Sep 2009, 13:23

correct to the best of my knowledge. I used it in August of this year. I passed it by the translator, and asked her if was ok, and she said perfect. I am sure that those Josephs and Anthony's are very very common. As with anything in this game you can take your chances or go though the trouble and cost of interlining vital records. I changed other things on a death certificate, like the birth day was one day off, and the citiznehsip at death said American, yikes, I had that changed to Italian, when I went to change the name, they said no no, you need a court order. While I am sure that I could explain this to a judge, do I want to?

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby corrado » 12 Sep 2009, 13:38

We worry about things that don't happen. There were two problem that were bugging me before my appointment, and the problem is you have all that time, you sit and worry. The first names and that on the cencus report it shows my family as naturalized. They didn't pay any attention to the census report, the letter from washington, trumps it. I know that from going though the famiy history, there is a very very good chance that my great grandfather got his citienship the chicago way. He paid the alderman ten dollars for his papers! The alderman told him he didn't have to wait 5 years and see a judge, he would take care of it for him. What a nice guy. Hehehe, he said me my Italian citizenship! So, I can't guarentee it will work, but there is a very very good chance it will. From talking to an Italian friend of mine, these auto certifications are used frequently. The counsulate won't tell you about the auto certification, they don't fell it's their job, but they will honor it.
Good luck whever you choose.

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby pjdoitnow » 15 Sep 2009, 04:00

Ciao Corrado & Donald66,

I would appreciate it if you could put a translation of the letter you posted as there are just a few things i can't seem to understand.

thank you so very much!

Pamela

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby Donald66 » 15 Sep 2009, 22:24

pjdoitnow wrote:Ciao Corrado & Donald66,

I would appreciate it if you could put a translation of the letter you posted as there are just a few things i can't seem to understand.

thank you so very much!

Pamela


Thanks to Google, Hope it is correct :?
*****************************************************

DECLARATION IN LIEU OF CERTIFICATION
(Art. 46 D.P.R. 28 December 2000, n. 445)

The undersigned Conrad, Jon Alexander

Born in Chicago, Illinois, USA on 1 / 10 / 1952
residing at 2176 W. Windsor Avenue, Chicago, Illinois USA 60625th

aware of criminal sanctions in case of false statements and falsified acts, call
Art. 76 D.P.R. 445 28/12/2000
STATES

that the person identified as Joseph Conrad in the birth certificate and the person named as Joseph P. Conrad is the same person

May 30, 2009

I declare, also, to be informed, in accordance with and for the purposes of Art. 13 of Legislative Decree no. 196/2003
Personal data collected will be treated, even by electronic means, only part of the proceedings for which this statement is made.


THE REGISTRANT

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jwazevedo
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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby jwazevedo » 16 Sep 2009, 02:29

The "autocertificazione", similar to an affidavit in North America, was set up by the Italian government to let citizens swear to certain facts in lieu of presenting certificates or other documentation. (For example, see http://www.moduli.it/browse.php/741 or http://www.comuni.it/autocertificazione ... azioni.htm) Basically, a person swears under penalty of law that certain facts are true, and the government (say, the comune) will accept that as true.

When I submitted my "one and the same person" documentation to the Vancouver Consulate, I wasn't sure whether I would fall under Canadian law or Italian law, so I gave them both a notarized affidavit AND an autocertificazione. The intent of both was identical: to swear that the minor name discrepancies noted in my paperwork referred to one and the same person. How the Consulate viewed these discrepancies and whether my two legal documents made any difference, I can't really say. They haven't gotten back to me yet one way or the other.

Best,
Jerry

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby Donald66 » 20 Sep 2009, 21:29

Can the certificate be notarized by a US Notary or does an "International" Notary exist??

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby corrado » 20 Sep 2009, 22:10

Signing a document in the presence of the consular offical is the same as a notary, or better in this case. If you get a notary stamp, you would I belive need an apostile as to the notary. I signed these docs in front of the consular official and they didn't question them.

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby Donald66 » 20 Sep 2009, 22:14

Thank you Corrado.

Is the Google translation accurate? If not, where can I obtain an accurate copy, in English, if possible?

I was going to complete the form in English and give it to a professional translator to ensure an accurate translation.

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby jwazevedo » 21 Sep 2009, 05:29

Are you still talking about the autocertificazione? If so, the language is very specific, and you should stick with those precise words, in Italian, without going back and forth between English and Italian. (And whatever you do, don't mess with Google Translator for your dual citizenship work.) Corrado gave a great example of the form and substance of the autocertificazione. You can use the legal language exactly as written there. All you need to change is the specifics of the name, and if that is not self-explanatory, post that particular line to the forum, and you'll get the few words you need.

Good luck,
Jerry

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Re: Father's first name listed differently on certain c

Postby Donald66 » 21 Sep 2009, 10:47

Will do!

jwazevedo wrote:Are you still talking about the autocertificazione? If so, the language is very specific, and you should stick with those precise words, in Italian, without going back and forth between English and Italian. (And whatever you do, don't mess with Google Translator for your dual citizenship work.) Corrado gave a great example of the form and substance of the autocertificazione. You can use the legal language exactly as written there. All you need to change is the specifics of the name, and if that is not self-explanatory, post that particular line to the forum, and you'll get the few words you need.

Good luck,
Jerry


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