Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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pats
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Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby pats » 16 Sep 2009, 15:50

Hi,

I'm Peruvian but currently a UK resident so want to start my citizenship process in London.

My GGGF was the first Italian inmigrant to come to Peru. Five years ago, most of my aunts and uncles requested the citizenship and in the process by GGF and grandfather acquired the citizenship. However, my mom didn't request it in that time and that's why we were not included in the process. Appointments in Peru take more than 5 years so I'm applying in London.

They ask me for several documents but I need some help understanding how to get the following:
- My grandfather's birth certificate or certificate that proves he's an Italian citizen. If he was dead at the time he received citizenship, would he be registered in the comune in Italy? Should I get his birth certificate there or how do I prove he's was an Italian citizen?
- The consulate also requires a declaration from the Peruvian authorities about a possible naturalization of my grandfather. I tried explaining to them that my grandfather was born in Peru and acquired the citizenship after his death but they insisted that I need this declaration. What document should I present?

Your help will be deeply appreciated as unfortunately the Peruvian consulate does not ask to any questions. Thank you!

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby mler » 16 Sep 2009, 17:53

First of all, if your aunts and uncles obtained citizenship through your GF and GGF, they did so by proving that both your GF and GGF were ALWAYS Italian citizens, either because your GGGF never naturalized or naturalized after your GGF was born.

By saying that your GGF and GF "acquired" Italian, you totally confused the consulate, which now believes they at one point lost and then reacquired citizenship. That is why they are asking for documents that will not be possible to obtain.

Instead, return to the consulate, and explain that you are applying for Italian citizenship jure sanguins through your GGGF-GGF-GF-M line. Your GGGF was an Italian citizen when your GGF was born (either because he never naturalized or naturalized after your GGF's birth). Tell them, too, that several aunts and uncles have already obtained citizenship through this line in Peru, and ask them if it is possible to access their files from the Peruvian consulate.

If they are unable or unwilling to access those records, you begin from scratch with:

GGGF - Italian birth certificate/natualization documentation/marriage certificate/death certificate

GGF - Peruvian BC/marriage cert./death cert.

GF - Peruvian BC/marriage cert./death cert.

Mother - Peruvian BC/marriage cert.

You - Birth and Marriage Certificates

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby pats » 16 Sep 2009, 18:03

Thanks. That's actually very helpful. Would my grandfather's birth certificate be registered in the comune? How can I prove that he is Italian now so that I don't need to collect all the documentation again?

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby mler » 16 Sep 2009, 21:37

Your grandfather's bc may well have been registered in the comune, but you will still need to go through the entire line to prove your eligibility. Italian citizenship is not recognized unless an application is made. Thus, if you apply for citizenship and your mom does not, your citizenship would be recognized but not hers. Her bc, however, would be registered.

In the process of applying for citizenship, your aunts and uncles had to prove that your gf was eligible for Italian citizenship, but his citizenship was never claimed by him. (If he had attempted to obtain Italian citizenship during his lifetime (before 1992) he would have lost his Peruvian citizenship.)

So, in essence, your gf's bc, even if registered at the comune, does not mean he was an Italian citizen; it simply means that he was eligible to claim citizenship jure sanguinis. The bc of everyone in the direct line would have been registered but only your GGGF, who was born in Italy, and your aunts and uncles, who applied for citizenship recognition, are actually considered citizens. Unfortunately, you will most certainly need all the documentation I listed.

If, however, the Peruvian consulate will permit the consulate in London to access your family's application, you may be able to avoid producing duplicate records. Check with the London consulate to see if this is a possibility. It is the only way of avoiding collecting the documentation again.

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby vanessa1105 » 20 Sep 2009, 22:45

I found this using google, and I'm having somewhat similar problems. My greatgrandfather is the one that was Italian and he came to Peru, where my grandmother was born and then he migrated to the United States. My dad was born in Peru and me too, but now all of us live in the states. A cousin of my father did all of this research and now is living in Spain. All I have is a copy of a passport of my great grandfather. I'm not sure where I can find a copy of his birth certificate or his death certificate. He would have been born in Italy but died here in the United States. I have my birth certificate and my aunt has copies of birth certificate of my dad and both my grandparents, but would I need to go to the Peruvian Embassy here, or the Italian embassy? I want to get this on the ball but I have no idea to which embassy to proceed. Since the states are so big and unless you live in a major state, the embassies correspond to wherever you are mapped in the country. Are you going to the Peruvian Embassy or Italian embassy?

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby mler » 21 Sep 2009, 00:41

Your situation is more complicated than most because you are dealing with three countries. First of all, has anyone in your citizenship line naturalized in the U.S. before 1992? It's also important that your father was born after 1/1/48 since he would have obtained citizenship from his mother. Assuming that your family qualifies, you would need at minimum:

GGF - Italian BC from his comune in Italy/proof of non naturalization or proof he naturalized after his daughter was born both from Peru and the U.S. /marriage certificate/death certificate.

GM - Peruvian BC/Marriage certificate/proof of non-naturalization in the U.S./ death certificate

Father - Peruvian BC/ Marriage certificate/proof of non-naturalization in the U.S.

You - (Same as your Father)

You apply at the consulate that serves the district in which you reside. If you live in the U.S., you apply in the U.S.

As far as obtaining the documents is concerned, you will have to do some research because you need to obtain the documents directly from the locality in which they were issued. The Peruvian consulate cannot help you with this, and the Italian consulate will not.

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby vanessa1105 » 21 Sep 2009, 00:50

Thank you for all that information. My grandmother and I are American citizens. My father was also born after 1/1/1948. Even though I am from the east coast (Italian consulates dont like to answer the phone here) so I have called the one in Los Angeles and I have asked them if us being born in Peru but having become citizens would deny my citizenship to Italy and they told me no. I asked twice to two people but I'm not sure now. I was naturalized in 2003 or 2004. I'm not sue about my grandmother. Does it matter if it was after 1992 or before?

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby mler » 21 Sep 2009, 02:44

If your grandmother naturalized after your father was born, and you naturalized after 1992 (and it appears both apply from your other post), you do qualify. Congratulations and good luck.

BTW, you will have to provide the U.S. naturalization documents because the dates are important.

If you are applying in NY, you will also probably have to submit documents from the non-Italian line. I hope you are applying from one of the other East Coast cities, because NY is becoming a bit of a pain.

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby vanessa1105 » 21 Sep 2009, 02:51

It seems like I will have to do all of this through Washington DC, since I live in North Carolina. Thank you so much. I was so afraid I gave up my right to an italian citizenship and I was damning the American citizenship already... seriously about to cry.

Thank you sooo much! :-D

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Re: Help on birth certificate and naturalization declaration

Postby pats » 11 Jan 2010, 23:18

Hi,

I'm actually getting ready for my appointment early in February at the Italian consulate in London!

I already have all my documents, starting from my GGGF. My mom lives in Peru but I'd like her to get the citizenship when I apply here in London. Will that be possible? Is there anything I should do to make this happen?
Many thanks,
Patricia


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