italian citizenship and geneaology service

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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oscar344
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italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby oscar344 » 02 Nov 2009, 03:29

What do you think of this sight is this the right and legitimate way to go about it and can you really get citizenship if your maternal great grandfather was an Italy at the time of his birth?? the site is:

http://www.myitaliancitizenship.com/ind ... cation.htm

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Nov 2009, 11:19

oscar344 wrote:What do you think of this sight is this the right and legitimate way to go about it and can you really get citizenship if your maternal great grandfather was an Italy at the time of his birth?? the site is:

http://www.myitaliancitizenship.com/ind ... cation.htm


Much has been written on this board and others about the use of services such as the one you mention. I think it fair to say that those of us who have been through this process mostly feel that it is entirely practical to do so on your own using nothing more than the free guidance you can get at places such as right here (I'd be happy to provide links to other boards as well). Why pay a service $150+ to obtain a document from Italy when you can most probably obtain the same document for nothing more than the cost of a postage stamp?

As to your question, "can you really get citizenship ...", why not give us a little more background?

1) What is the line of ancestors which takes you from your Italian great-grandfather to yourself? Example: Great-grandfather -> grandfather -> mother -> yourself.

2) In what years were each of the ancestors born? Approximate if you don't have the exact date.

3) Do you have any information as to whether your Italian ancestor (your great-grandfather) became a naturalized citizen of another country and, if so, when did this occur?

4) I have a tendency to presume that everyone I "meet" on the web is based in the USA unless they clearly indicate otherwise. Is it safe to assume that your great-grandfather emigrated to the US and that your family has been here since?

[edited to add]

5) Where do you live? There are several Italian consulates in the US, for example, and your place of official residence determines which of these consulates you must make your application at. Some are known to be more difficult and/or have more stringent document requirements than others.

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oscar344
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby oscar344 » 02 Nov 2009, 13:48

1. The line of my ancestry is Great-Grandfather -> Grandfather -> Mother -> me
2. My great Grandfather was born in Italy ( i believe Sicily) around 1910 he moved to the US in when he was approximately 2 years old. Then my grandfather was born in the US in 1931 then my mother in 1960 and me in 1989
3. i do not know where can I find this?
4. Yes, his children and himself and there grand children lived in New Jersey up until about 20 years ago ( at which time they dispersed around the country)
5. I lived in PA and the closest one to my location is in Philadelphia

thanks for the help
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Nov 2009, 14:26

oscar344 wrote:1. The line of my ancestry is Great-Grandfather -> Grandfather -> Mother -> me
2. My great Grandfather was born in Italy ( i believe Sicily) around 1910 he moved to the US in when he was approximately 2 years old. Then my grandfather was born in the US in 1931 then my mother in 1960 and me in 1989
3. i do not know where can I find this?
4. Yes, his children and himself and there grand children lived in New Jersey up until about 20 years ago ( at which time they dispersed around the country)
5. I lived in PA and the closest one to my location is in Philadelphia

thanks for the help


The greatest potential difficulty here is the possibility that your great-great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen while your great-grandfather was still a minor child. If so, your great-grandfather would have automatically naturalized along with his father, thus ending the Italian line.

You will need to begin your research by determining your great-great-grandfather's naturalization status. His death certificate will give you a clue but not a certainty. Take a look at this USCIS web site.

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oscar344
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby oscar344 » 02 Nov 2009, 14:37

Okay thanks, did most people in the early 1900's become naturalized citizens? What are my chances
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby vj » 02 Nov 2009, 14:52

It's hard to tell how many folks naturalized
Many family's did as soon as they could, many folks waited
The fastest way to get an idea of naturalization status would be on a 1900, 1910, 1920 or 1930 census - it was a question the enumerator asked.
Valarie

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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby campabasso » 02 Nov 2009, 19:15

Hi:

I am confused. My paternal greatgrandfather was born in Italy and came to the US in 1885.
Am I am to claim Italian citizenship based on this alone or is claim void if he became a US citizen.

thanks

julie

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Nov 2009, 20:00

campabasso wrote:Hi:

I am confused. My paternal greatgrandfather was born in Italy and came to the US in 1885.
Am I am to claim Italian citizenship based on this alone or is claim void if he became a US citizen.

thanks

julie


Hi, Julie.

At the time in question, dual citizenship was not an option. If your great-grandfather became a naturalized US citizen (on his own if he was over 18 or along with a parent if he was a minor) prior to the birth of your grandfather (?), then he could not have passed the right to Italian citizenship onto him.

Jus sanguinis is the passing down of Italian citizenship from generation to generation. If someone "breaks the chain" by giving up his/her Italian citizenship (by becoming a naturalized citizzen of another country), any children born after that date do not inherit Italian citizenship.

My grandfather came to the US at age 17 and did not naturalize until well after my father's birth, hence my father inherited the right to Italian citizenship and I inherited from my father.

In Oscar's case, his immediate ancestor came to the US as a child of just two years age. As pointed out, there is a risk that his father naturalized while the child was still a minor; at that time, this would have meant that the child would have been automatically naturalized as well. Since the child is no longer "Italian", he cannot pass citizenship to the next generation (his children) - the line has been broken.

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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby campabasso » 02 Nov 2009, 20:15

Hi:

Thanks for quick response. My paternal greatgrandfather came to US in 1885. My grandfather was born in 1890. So what you are saying is that if my GGF became a citizen before my GF was born, then the chain is broken.
However, if my GGF was not a US citizen before birth, then my claim is based upon this and susequent birth of my GF.
I can't imagine my GGF becoming a naturalized citizen before bith of my GF. How do I find this out?
It seems the more I read the more I become confused but I am working on it and want to learn.

thanks
grazie
Julie

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Nov 2009, 22:20

>> My paternal greatgrandfather came to US in 1885. My grandfather was born in 1890. So what you are saying is that if my GGF became a citizen before my GF was born, then the chain is broken.

Correct.

>> I can't imagine my GGF becoming a naturalized citizen before bith of my GF.

I agree. It is most unlikely that he did so in such a short period of time. Not impossible, but unlikely.

>> How do I find this out?

You can get hints by looking at his death certificate and/or census records, but the only definitive answer is the one that comes from the US Citizenship and Immigration Service - use the "USCIS" link in my previous post in this thread.


>> It seems the more I read the more I become confused but I am working on it and want to learn.

We all started out the same way.

>> thanks

You're welcome!

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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby cdevita » 12 Nov 2009, 07:17

I am going around in circles! Is there a logical order in which to obtain docs (i.e. birth, death, marriage, naturalization,etc.)? I have my grandparents and great grandparents docs to track down. I have so many letters done, I am getting confused! All of my great grandparents children are deceased so according to the State of New York, unless I get a court order, I can only obtain genealogical records which are uncertified! I am trying for Italian Citizenship and feel as though I am missing a natural pattern here and spinning my wheels...Is there a checklist including the proper sequence somewhere???

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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby VaDeb » 12 Nov 2009, 14:15

I think most people track down the naturalization question first, and make sure the line has not been broken. The official certs and apostille's can get expensive. If you dp not qualify due to a naturalization, ordering the apostilles are a waste of money.

Make a chart of the lineage you are using and use that to create a list of the birth, marriage and death certs required by the consulate you are using.

Depending on the timeline you are working on, it is always best to start with your birth record and work backwards. You never know what you will find on a record that will help you correctly order an earlier record. If you have researched and feel comfortable with the family genealogy you may be very successful order several generations of certs at one time.

Suggest finding all the free info you can. Obits, census records, draft cards, burial records and naturalization records.

If you have an elderly parent/grandparent in the line consider if you are working with a state that requires their consent to obtain a record. If needed, you might want to give priority to that record.

Debbie

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Re: italian citizenship and geneaology service

Postby cdevita » 13 Nov 2009, 01:29

Thank you--My lineage is GGF/GR/F. I have looked for a month--cannot find any nationalization records. His last GGF last census was 1930...still and alien...Grandfather born 1914.

Contacting NARA and UCIS tomorrow to see how I can obtain a "No Records" statement.

All grandparents deceased. One surviving child (62 yo) willing to give me some birth certificates and a letter giving me full power of attorney to collect anything I need...BUT NYS says if everyone on birth certif dead, I will need a court order to get it--Father deceased...same with his birth certificate--Mom can't even get it.

I think I can get my hands on ONE copy of everything now, BUT I understand that the Consulate in LA will not give me my original records back so unless I get MORE copies, I will lose everything we have.

That would bring me to get my GGparents birth records from Italy and their marriage certificate. Sent an email to the Commue three weeks ago, no response.


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