Need help getting grandmother's parents names

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katier
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Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 02 Nov 2009, 19:24

My husband's grandparents all emigrated from Sicily. I've had decent luck getting the grandfathers (parternal and maternal) birth certs from their comuni in Sicily. I was also able to get some information on the maternal grandmother's parents.

I have hit a roadblock getting more information about my husband's paternal grandmother.

Her name was Sebastiana Guarrera
She was born in Riposto, Sicily 8 Mar, 1899
She was married to Lucio Rodolico 11 Feb, 1914 (yes, she was very young.)
They emigrated to the US, via Ellis Island, on 20 Mar, 1914 on the SS America.
She naturalized in Nov 1943.
She died Aug. 1978.

The issue I'm having is determining her parents names. I can't order her death cert. Riposto said they could not find her birth cert. (I've re-requested.) They noted the marriage on the bottom of Lucio's birth cert. But returned nothing for my request for the marriage certificate.

I tried ordering her death certificate since that would have her parents names - but New Jersey won't let you order it without knowing the parents names.

I'm hoping, once I have her parents names, I can give enough information to Riposto to get her birth certificate.

(My husband is applying for jure sanguinis at the LA consulate)

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vj
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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby vj » 02 Nov 2009, 20:36

Hi!
Since she had a SS# you could order her SS Application (abt $27)
It should have her parent's names and place of birth:

Social Security Application SS-5

His SS# is available here if you don’t already have it:
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ ... _form=true

About the SS Application:
http://genealogy.about.com/od/online_re ... equest.htm
The SS-5, or Application for Social Security Number is a great resource for learning more about individuals who died after about 1960, and generally includes the following:
- Full name
- Full name at birth, including maiden name
- Present mailing address
- Age at last birthday
- Date of birth
- Place of birth
- Father's full name
- Mother's full name, including maiden name
- Sex
- Race as indicated by the applicant
- Whether the applicant ever applied for Social Security or Railroad Retirement before
- Current employer's name and address
- Date signed
- Applicant's signature


Order form SSA-711 (can be done online):
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/html/foia_guide.htm

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby VaDeb » 02 Nov 2009, 23:55

katier,

vj has a great suggestion. This is a record that your grandmother would have completed.

1978 is a fairly recent record. Do you have an obituary for her? Did your grandmother have any siblings in the USA? Do you have their obits? Often you will find this information in the obit.

What area of NJ are you researching? I have also done alot of research in NJ and NJ is a very unfriendly document state. But, there are ways. Are any of your grandmother's children still living? It will be easier for them to get the document. Do you know where she was buried? The cemetery may have a copy of the death cert. Has your family used the same funeral home? They will have the death cert. They may not give you a copy, but if you can talk to the funeral director in person there is a good chance that they will tell you the names listed on the death cert. Then you will have the "correct" names to request the record.

I was recently getting a record from a NJ cemetery. It is not uncommon on older death certs to have an "unknown" listed as a parents name. The cemetery director told me that NJ no longer allows any "unknown" parents names. Guess the funeral is held up until someone finds or makes up a name.

Good luck
Debbie

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby VaDeb » 03 Nov 2009, 00:04

Lucio Rodolico has a petition for naturalization record 1929 on ancestry.com and it also lists his wife. Have you seen this record?

Are you sure the death record you want is not in Pennsylvania?

Debbie

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katier
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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 03 Nov 2009, 00:30

I will try the SS forms. That seems like a great option.

She lived in Philadelphia - but like many folks in Philly - she summered at the Jersey shore. She passed away during the summer, at their bungalow in North Wildwood, NJ.

Yes, NJ is a very unfriendly document state from my limited experience. (Based strictly on this one document, compared with 7 docs that were easy from PA.) But at least this time (3rd attempt to get doc) they told me why they rejected it. (Lack of parents names.) The previous two attempts the rejection implied we hadn't shown the lineage (birth cert of husband and his father.) Which we had sent with the request.

She did not have any siblings in the US that we know of. She emigrated from Italy as a young bride. My father in law, her son, is disabled, and not a lot of help on this. (His speech center is effected by his disablity.) My mother in law tried to get the info from some of this info from the siblings of my father in law - so far no one remembers. Keep in mind, they never met their grandparents since they were born here in the US and their grandparents (Lucio's and Sebastiana's parents) all stayed in Sicily.

I've also sent a request to some of the cousins in Sicily. I hope that will garner some info. The one cousin we're closest to has forwarded our request to his cousin (who we haven't met) who's done a lot of geneological research.)

Thank you for your help.

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 19 Nov 2009, 02:38

Well... That was a bust.
I got the FOIA response on the SS App. She filled it out with her name as her mother's name and her husband's name as her father's name. I think the odds are slim that Sebastiana Guarerra, who married Lucio Rodolico, had parents named Sebastiana Guarerra and Lucio Rodolico.

The one cousin from Sicily that responded knew more about Lucio's side. She's going to ask around.

Perhaps my re-request to Riposto for her birth cert will produce results. I hope to hear back soon.

From other boards I've seen that LA consulate is, indeed, asking for the docs on the spouses of the line. So I'd like to have her birth and death cert. Right now all I have is her Naturalization papers and a notation mentioning her marriage on the bottom of her husband's birth certificate.

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby VaDeb » 19 Nov 2009, 03:00

katier, Try the cemetery or funeral home. 1978 date of death is fairly recent in terms of modern records. The funeral home may not give you a copy of the death cert if they have it, but they are likely to tell you what the names of the parents were recorded on the document.

Debbie

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby suanj » 19 Nov 2009, 06:02

Riposto said they could not find her birth cert. (I've re-requested.)


Hi,
I found this ship's manifest of Luca Rodolico and Sebastiana wife; the age of Sebastiana is 20 and not 15 ( if she really born in 1899); birthplace: Riposto
Philadelphia Passenger Lists, 1800-1945
about Sebastiana Rodolico
Name: Sebastiana Rodolico
Arrival Date: 21 Mar 1914
Age: 20 Years
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Gender: Female
Ethnic Background: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Ship Name: America
Port of Arrival: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Friend's Name: Carmelo Costosino ( brother in law)
Last Residence: Italy
Birthplace: Reposh, Italy
Microfilm Roll Number: T840_124
pag 1 http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i43478 ... tiana1.jpg
pag 2 http://s6.imagestime.com/out.php/i43478 ... tiana2.jpg

I believe that the birthyear is no correct as resulting in USA and maybe for that Riposto cannot find the birth act... maybe she really born in 1894, because the ship's manifest was by passports and normally the age is very right....
just my suggestion....
regards, suanj
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katier
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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 19 Nov 2009, 15:50

I've seen that manifest also. But I think that's in error. Who knows.

I have her naturalization papers from NARA.

Her certificate of arrival that is part of the NARA bundle shows that she arrived on the SS America at age 20 in 1914. Which matches the link you posted.

But her petition for naturalization lists her birthday as 3/8/1899.

Since you can't change/amend naturalization papers - I'm hoping that date is correct.

Family lore has it that she married at age 15 and emmigrated with Lucio immediately after - which fits the birthday of 1899.

Lucio's naturalization papers show Sebastiana's birthday as 20 Feb, 1899. Same year shown as her papers, but different date.

My father in law (her youngest son) will be moving in with us in 3 weeks. I'll ask him what I can. Unfortunately he's got mobilitiy and language issues due to a bad accident several years ago (combined with old age). So I'm not sure how helpful he'll be. I've sent a letter to his sister to see what she remembers.

I was so disappointed that the SS app came back with such wrong information. I thought that would be my ticket to unraveling this.

If I get another "not found" from Riposto I'll send a new request with a year of 1894 (which would make her 20 in 1914) rather than 1914. Since she's the spouse, rather than the descendent... I'm not sure if her naturalization papers play into it. (And therefore the errors may not play into it.)

There are a few other problems with pursuing through the paternal side. Lucio's naturalization papers mispell my father in laws name (Erico instead of Enrico) and seem to randomly make up all of his kids and wives birthdays. I think he was one of these guys who was never good with dates - so he'd make stuff up if he didn't know it. Fortunately, we can pursue through the maternal line as well... although there are discrepancies there. (My mother in laws birth cert is the nexus of mispellings - the last name, the maiden name of her mom, her mom's first name... it's a mess! But it can be amended.)

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby suanj » 19 Nov 2009, 16:21

Hi, when you send again the request in Riposto please to say Sebastiana born in 1894 circa so the officer will search also in 1893 or 1895... frankly I believe correct the age on the ship's manifest... I know, for experience, that the age on the ship's manifest are correct normally, and matching with italian records perfectly... what resulting on US documents can be a bit different, but and however when Sebastiana left Italy she was 20 old.... the ship's manifest was made by passports and the italian passports was very precise, because they was relayed by italian police and italian birth common, by legal documents provided.... maybe I am wrong, but just my suggestion is that Riposto no found the birthact in 1899 birth registry because Sebastiana was no born in 1899... I'm pretty sure that you will receive the birth certificate by this second request...
good luck,
suanj
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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 19 Nov 2009, 22:56

Thanks.
I'm going to go ahead and send a new request (even though I've already got an outstanding re-request).

Grazie

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby Bette » 19 Nov 2009, 23:20

Katier,
Have you thought about researching the microfilmed records at a Mormon Family History Center? There are microfilms available to rent and read at a center for the period 1821 - 1929, for the town of Riposto. These would be birth, marriage & death records. If you were to search for the marriage record, you would find the names of her parents, and her age. Of course, it is all in Italian, but there are books out there to assist, such as the book by Lynn Nelson, entitled, "A Genealogist's Guide to Discovering Your Italian Ancestors." Here you will find examples of each type of record with the translations. The microfilms cost approx $5.50 each to rent. You can find the list of film numbers on the website: www.familysearch.org.
Just an alternative idea for you.
Bette

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 20 Nov 2009, 02:23

Thank you, Bette. That's a good idea.

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Re: Need help getting grandmother's parents names

Postby katier » 03 May 2010, 16:34

I thought I would update on this.
Out of the blue - one of my (many) requests to Riposto for her birth and marriage record resulted in a jackpot. I received the envelope from Riposto last week with both grandmother's birth certs and the paternal grandparent's marriage certificate - the last of the missing Italian documents.

My husbands grandmother was born in 1894. This is causing some family drama/laughter... a few relatives refuse to believe she would have shaved 5 years off her age. It was VERY much part of the family lore that she came to the US at age 15... not age 20. My husband remembers that was one of the few English sentences she could say. She worked hard on this myth.

Unfortunately, it's too late to get the NJ death cert - our appointment is this Friday. If they require it - we'll get it and submit it after the appt. Since my husband is going through her husband - hopefully we won't need it.

We have all the documents for BOTH lines (maternal and paternal) but there are spelling errors on the maternal line and the state of PA has rejected both notorized requests that my mother in law has submitted.

Thanks so much for your help on this board.


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