Does American version of name need to be amended?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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ccam
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Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby ccam » 07 Nov 2009, 12:59

I'm about to apply to amend my great grandfather's death certificate to correct the spelling of his last name and date of birth to match his Italian birth certificate. I was wondering if I should also amend to change his death certificate to show Giuseppe instead of Joseph?

Additionally, the death certificate indicates his wife is Mannella when it should be Emmanuela.

I'm applying to the NY Consulate and don't know how particular they are with nick names or different versions of names. I've noticed other discrepensies in other certificates such as Tessie or Teresa, Nicola and Nicholas.

Finally, his naturalization papers indicate a different marriage date than the Italian marriage record I obtained. Since the naturalization certificate can't be amended, I guess I will have to hope for the best on that one.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Nov 2009, 13:28

ccam wrote:I'm about to apply to amend my great grandfather's death certificate to correct the spelling of his last name and date of birth to match his Italian birth certificate. I was wondering if I should also amend to change his death certificate to show Giuseppe instead of Joseph?

Additionally, the death certificate indicates his wife is Mannella when it should be Emmanuela.

I'm applying to the NY Consulate and don't know how particular they are with nick names or different versions of names. I've noticed other discrepensies in other certificates such as Tessie or Teresa, Nicola and Nicholas.

Finally, his naturalization papers indicate a different marriage date than the Italian marriage record I obtained. Since the naturalization certificate can't be amended, I guess I will have to hope for the best on that one.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.


I obtained citizenship through the NYC consulate more than a year ago when, based on reading this and other boards, they were somewhat more lenient than they are today.

My grandfather's death certificate also listed him as Joseph instead of Giuseppe; the NYC consulate was not at all concerned about this minor discrepancy.

Frankly, I have no idea why they would even want death certificates in the first place. Only two possibilities come to mind,

1) The ancestral comune will be able to update their records accordingly

2) If your ancestor were still living, he/she would be required to complete Form 3, "DECLARATION OF LIVING ITALIAN ASCENDANT" (here). Having the death certificate obviates the need for Form 3. On the other hand, since we are talking about a great-grandfather in this case who would likely be well over 100 years old, the death certificate hardly seems necessary.

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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby momo1 » 09 Nov 2009, 07:12

I have also been looking for the answer to this question. I would recommend if the state or county will change it and it will correct dates as well, change it. I am going to change my GGF's death cert. after I get his birth certificate from Italy. It has what would be the americian version of Beniamino. The county seems willing to do it so just to have no problems I am changing it.

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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 09 Nov 2009, 11:02

momo1 wrote:I have also been looking for the answer to this question. I would recommend if the state or county will change it and it will correct dates as well, change it. I am going to change my GGF's death cert. after I get his birth certificate from Italy. It has what would be the americian version of Beniamino. The county seems willing to do it so just to have no problems I am changing it.


I agree entirely with the idea that any discrepancies which can be amended or changed should be amended or changed prior to presenting the documents to the consulate. Besides, the corrections you make today will make the task of some future amatuer (or professional) genealogist in your family that much easier.

As to death certificates, however, I believe that in mnay states the only one who can persue an ammendment is the original informant/declarant - the person, usually a close family member - who provided the death certificate information at the time of death.

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ccam
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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby ccam » 09 Nov 2009, 11:50

thanks I will amend all discrepancies on the certificates. Johnny, I'm able to amend by showing the informant is deceased and my relation.

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micheleantonio
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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby micheleantonio » 11 Nov 2009, 19:26

I applied there ten years ago and was unable to get mine due to discrepancies in the spelling of my grandfathers last name and my mothers birth certificate name. I was unable to resolve it. A lawyer I hired that was recommended by the consulate was unable to amend my mothers spelling with my grandfathers as NYS law does not allow modification of birth certificates of deceased individuals. Also, my understanding was you cannot go back to great grandparents.

I agree with an earlier reply, I don't see why they would be so particular with a death certificate of a great or grandparent. You are just linking the births and marriages of all the participants as proof of your lineage. Death certificates may be required however as part of the documentation of your file. You are lucky, my experience of their help was minimal at best and they did not seem to comprehend how documents are linked by numbers in the naturalization process.

Good Luck and don't let them discourage you! It can be, for some, an arduous process.


ccam wrote:I'm about to apply to amend my great grandfather's death certificate to correct the spelling of his last name and date of birth to match his Italian birth certificate. I was wondering if I should also amend to change his death certificate to show Giuseppe instead of Joseph?

Additionally, the death certificate indicates his wife is Mannella when it should be Emmanuela.

I'm applying to the NY Consulate and don't know how particular they are with nick names or different versions of names. I've noticed other discrepensies in other certificates such as Tessie or Teresa, Nicola and Nicholas.

Finally, his naturalization papers indicate a different marriage date than the Italian marriage record I obtained. Since the naturalization certificate can't be amended, I guess I will have to hope for the best on that one.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

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micheleantonio
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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby micheleantonio » 11 Nov 2009, 19:29

I applied there ten years ago and was unable to get mine due to discrepancies in the spelling of my grandfathers last name and my mothers birth certificate name. I was unable to resolve it. A lawyer I hired that was recommended by the consulate was unable to amend my mothers spelling with my grandfathers as NYS law does not allow modification of birth certificates of deceased individuals. Also, my understanding was you cannot go back to great grandparents.

I agree with an earlier reply, I don't see why they would be so particular with a death certificate of a great or grandparent. You are just linking the births and marriages of all the participants as proof of your lineage. Death certificates may be required however as part of the documentation of your file. You are lucky, my experience of their help was minimal at best and they did not seem to comprehend how documents are linked by numbers in the naturalization process.

Good Luck and don't let them discourage you! It can be, for some, an arduous process.


ccam wrote:I'm about to apply to amend my great grandfather's death certificate to correct the spelling of his last name and date of birth to match his Italian birth certificate. I was wondering if I should also amend to change his death certificate to show Giuseppe instead of Joseph?

Additionally, the death certificate indicates his wife is Mannella when it should be Emmanuela.

I'm applying to the NY Consulate and don't know how particular they are with nick names or different versions of names. I've noticed other discrepensies in other certificates such as Tessie or Teresa, Nicola and Nicholas.

Finally, his naturalization papers indicate a different marriage date than the Italian marriage record I obtained. Since the naturalization certificate can't be amended, I guess I will have to hope for the best on that one.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Does American version of name need to be amended?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 11 Nov 2009, 20:29

micheleantonio wrote:... Also, my understanding was you cannot go back to great grandparents.


You can go back as many generations as you need to. The only limitation is that you must reach back to an actual Italian citizen, a task which may be more complex than it appears at first blush.

The modern country we know as "Italy" only dates back to 1861. Therefore, if your ancestor left the general area now known as Italy and died prior to that date then there are not and never were any Italians in your ancestral lineage.


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