Italian dual citizenship general process

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Squigy
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Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Squigy » 19 Nov 2009, 09:09

I am now almost positive I qualify for dual citizenship; my great grandpa was born before his father was naturalized, his daughter had my mother after 1948, and to my knowledge, none of my ancestors renounced their citizenship. Now I would like to know exactly how I get it, and what it will cost. First, when asking for birth records from Italy, do I need to make sure the Comune knows they must be legal? Second, how do I translate American records? Do the translations need to be legal (do they need Apostilles?). After I get all the documents and legalities and submit my application, how long does it take for me to become a citizen? Does the consulate charge you anything? I read somewhere they have a $1,000 fee. That website also said it takes 3 years to become a citizen after you apply, is this true? I'm sorry, I have a lot of questions. I'm trying to set the record straight, as I may be applying sooner than I thought.
My Italian surnames:

Caserta: Maietta, Rossano, Tessitore, Negro, Peluso, Musone

Campobasso: D'Andrea, Barile

Catanzaro: Fiorelli/Fiorillo, Romito

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Mulé
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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Mulé » 19 Nov 2009, 12:39

Step #1. Contact the consulate and see when their next available appointment for the citizenship office is. I didn't do this step first, but waited until I had collected all my documents. I got a call back yesterday, stating that the next available appointment for Philadelphia is February 2011. Yes, 2011! So now that I have all my documents, I am in waiting mode while I try to figure out other options.

Specific answers to your questions.

Now I would like to know exactly how I get it,

In general the gist is this, you will need to gather all supporting documentation, with apostilles and translations where required and file an application at the consulate/embassy serving your area.

and what it will cost.

This is the major variable. The application does not have a fee, but requesting each document might, as well as the cost of the apostilles and the cost of the translations and the cost of the "legalization/verification" of each document at the consulate. DIY'ers can save some money here and there, but the cost still adds up quickly when you have so many documents to acquire.

First, when asking for birth records from Italy, do I need to make sure the Comune knows they must be legal?

Yeah, search around, there are templates in Italian that you can use to request the correct form/format of the document. This is important.

Second, how do I translate American records?

You can contact the consulate/embassy for a list of approved/accepted translators, or you can google search for italian/english translators, YMMV

Do the translations need to be legal (do they need Apostilles?)

My understanding is that apostilles do not need to be translated.
Here is what I am currently doing.
1. Get the certified copy of the original document.
2. Send certified copy of the original document to get and apostille
3. Send a scan of the certified copy of the original document to the translator
4. When the apostilled original comes back, place returned translation on the document.
5. Send/Bring the apostilled original with translation to the corresponding consulate/embassy serving that document's region to verify/legalize the translation.

After I get all the documents and legalities and submit my application, how long does it take for me to become a citizen?

This is variable. From end to end it can take quite some time. If you were to apply at the Philadelphia consulate it would take a minimum of 1.5 years, as it will take just that long to get an APPOINTMENT to file. So get your appointment first, then hurry gather all documents. Still attend your appointment even if you don't have everything, it will keep your process open. The determination could take 1 day to 3 years I have heard in some difficult cases.

Does the consulate charge you anything? I read somewhere they have a $1,000 fee.

I have not heard or read anything of the sort.

I hope you are applying sooner than you thought. I thought I would be applying this month, only to find out the next possible time the consulate will see me is in 1.5 years. :( good luck...

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby jwazevedo » 19 Nov 2009, 20:37

You'll find several sites on the web that advise on what you need and how to do it, some more helpful and accurate than others, but really the best place to start is at the consulate itself. You must apply in the consulate jurisdiction where you reside, so unless you're free to move around, that sets the place with which you'll be dealing. Check their website. Most have posted the application process and forms.

Some variations noted on Mule's helpful advice:
* Not all consulates require appointments; some are just drop-in.
* Not all consulates require certified translations. Check with yours.
* The time from document submission (and acceptance of them) to recognition depends on the consulate and on the comune; the consulate should be able to advise you.

Check the archived emails on this forum, since many in recent weeks give info on writing the letter to Italy and other interesting tips. This is a great forum.

Good luck,
Jerry

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Mulé » 20 Nov 2009, 02:37

jwazevedo wrote:* Not all consulates require appointments; some are just drop-in.

That is something I had overlooked. When the offical returns my call I will ask if there are open times when I can just drop-in, without an appointment in order to file my application. Just this thought gives me new hope. :)

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Squigy » 20 Nov 2009, 05:12

Wow, thanks guys. My grandmother was really excited to find out she could get dual citizenship. Just one more question, when getting records from Italy, how do I make sure they know it's for citizenship, and must be legal? I found a forum letter but, it doesn't say it must be legal.


-Squigy


P.S. I hope you're able to get in sooner, Mulé. :wink:
My Italian surnames:



Caserta: Maietta, Rossano, Tessitore, Negro, Peluso, Musone



Campobasso: D'Andrea, Barile



Catanzaro: Fiorelli/Fiorillo, Romito

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jwazevedo
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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby jwazevedo » 20 Nov 2009, 05:52

Here's a post that gave the language:

Post

I just followed the directions from the consulate. (Do you sense a common theme here? :wink: )

Good luck,
Jerry

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Squigy » 20 Nov 2009, 06:41

Thanks, Jwazevedo. I have my letter written and ready to go. But, I am confused about something I read on the Philadelphia Consulate's site, hear is what it said:

MEANS OF ACQUIRING ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP THROUGH A FORMAL REQUEST

1. Declaration of intention by the applicant

If a foreign citizen descends from an Italian citizen by birth (up to second generation) he/she can obtain Italian citizenship if:

he/she serves in the Italian military services;

he/she works for the Italian Government, even abroad;

legally resides in Italy for at least two years after reaching legal age.

A foreign citizen who is born on Italian soil may obtain Italian citizenship if he/she legally resides in Italy, without interruption, from birth to legal age.


I thought there was no generational limit. Also, I thought you didn't have to do ANY of those things to become a citizen.
My Italian surnames:



Caserta: Maietta, Rossano, Tessitore, Negro, Peluso, Musone



Campobasso: D'Andrea, Barile



Catanzaro: Fiorelli/Fiorillo, Romito

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby johnnyonthespot » 20 Nov 2009, 11:05

Squigy wrote:Thanks, Jwazevedo. I have my letter written and ready to go. But, I am confused about something I read on the Philadelphia Consulate's site, hear is what it said:

MEANS OF ACQUIRING ITALIAN CITIZENSHIP THROUGH A FORMAL REQUEST

1. Declaration of intention by the applicant

If a foreign citizen descends from an Italian citizen by birth (up to second generation) he/she can obtain Italian citizenship if:

he/she serves in the Italian military services;

he/she works for the Italian Government, even abroad;

legally resides in Italy for at least two years after reaching legal age.

A foreign citizen who is born on Italian soil may obtain Italian citizenship if he/she legally resides in Italy, without interruption, from birth to legal age.


I thought there was no generational limit. Also, I thought you didn't have to do ANY of those things to become a citizen.


You are referring to a method of obtaining Italian citizenship when the bloodline has been broken. See the NYC consulate for a more complete explanation of proving citizenshiop jure sanguinis (unbroken bloodline), here.

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Squigy » 20 Nov 2009, 23:07

Thanks guys! I guess I'm ready to start getting documents.
My Italian surnames:



Caserta: Maietta, Rossano, Tessitore, Negro, Peluso, Musone



Campobasso: D'Andrea, Barile



Catanzaro: Fiorelli/Fiorillo, Romito

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Mulé
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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby Mulé » 20 Nov 2009, 23:13

My two cents, check consulate for next available appointment times first. IMO it make sense to get appointment first, since it is most likely months to years in the future anyhow, this way you won't be stuck with your documents waiting a 1.5 years to see the official. :(

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby linma » 06 Dec 2009, 21:10

Hello I'm a descendant of an ininterrupted paternal line from an Italian ancestor, who was born back as far as 1825, therefore he was my father's great great grandfather. However I keep reading everywhere there's no generaton limit in order to apply for dual citizenship via iuris sanguinis. I read somewhere that even though the Italian State was not created until 1871, at this moment every person that had been born before the date was automatically naturalized as an italian citizen. Having this said, I'd like to know if, in your opinion I apply for dual citizenship. I should say this person migrated from Italy before 1871 where he got married and lived until he died. In any case, do you know if there are civil records back from that date in Italy?

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Dec 2009, 22:17

In 1806 Napoleon ruled most of Italy andin 1806 began requiring that civil registration records be kept. In 1815 Italy returned to its former occupier nations and civil registration ended in 1815 but since southern Italy was a nation, Kingdom of the Two Sicilies it retained civil registration. Northern Italy was hit or miss with some comunes maintaining civil registrations while others did not. Let me know the town of origin he was born in and I can tell you whats available. =Peter=
~Peter~

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby johnnyonthespot » 06 Dec 2009, 22:57

linma wrote:Hello I'm a descendant of an ininterrupted paternal line from an Italian ancestor, who was born back as far as 1825, therefore he was my father's great great grandfather. However I keep reading everywhere there's no generaton limit in order to apply for dual citizenship via iuris sanguinis. I read somewhere that even though the Italian State was not created until 1871, at this moment every person that had been born before the date was automatically naturalized as an italian citizen. Having this said, I'd like to know if, in your opinion I apply for dual citizenship. I should say this person migrated from Italy before 1871 where he got married and lived until he died. In any case, do you know if there are civil records back from that date in Italy?


Let us assume that your ancestor was born in Sicily in 1825. Now...

... if he left Sicily in 1850 and became a naturalized citizen of another country at any time prior to the unification of Italy (roughly 1865) then he and his descendants have no Italian blood.

... if he left Sicily in 1850 but did not naturalize in another country, then when Italy came into existence in (roughly) 1865, he automatically became a citizen of the new country and the usual rules apply as to the status of his descendants.

... if he left Sicily in 1850 and died prior to the unification of Italy, then he died a Sicilian but was never an Italian and thus his descendants have no Italian blood either.

The biggest problem with reaching back this far is what I call "the exponential rule" - for each added generation, the difficulty in obtaining all necessary documentation, avoiding name and date discrepancies, etc, - the difficulty doubles. If the difficulty of going back a single generation is a "Level 2", then going two generations has a difficulty level of 4, three generations is an 8, four generations is 16, and five generations a whopping 32!

Yikes!

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby PeterTimber » 06 Dec 2009, 23:10

Civil records are available in southern Italy from 1809 which include births marriages and deaths. Any determination as to citizenship unless made by an authorized Italian Official is hearsay. =Peter=
~Peter~

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Re: Italian dual citizenship general process

Postby linma » 07 Dec 2009, 21:36

Thanks for all your remarks. As far as I am concerned he was born in Genova, in 1825 and emigrated abroad in 1850. Up to now it has not been possible to establish a naturalization record of his citizenship in Venezuela, which is the country he went to, nor before or after the unification of Italy. I'm working on it. As for the "exponential rule", that's for sure. Just want to give it a try. What would you recommend?


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