Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
SChiarini
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Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby SChiarini » 24 Nov 2009, 06:23

Hi

After a few months of doing my research, I finally found out I am eligible for dual citizenship! So begins the long process.

My GGF came over in 1904, filed his declaration of intention in 1929, however he passed away in 1932 and never filed a petition. He never became a citizen because in 1933 his wife had to file her own petition for naturalization.

I have most of my paper work, except for my GGM birth certificate, which I am trying to locate in Italy and my GGF no record naturalization letters. I keep hearing the New York consulate is very difficult. I put in for a search on USCIS and NARA - however they also require a letter from the county court (Eastern District) but when I went there they said they don't keep any records there? I also need a census report - where can I obtain that from? NARA as well??

(Sorry for so many questions)

Also, once I have the appropriate papers - where do I go to have the papers translated into Italian? I'm confused as to what an Apostille is.

Thank in advance for your help!

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Mulé
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby Mulé » 25 Nov 2009, 14:36

SChiarini wrote:I have most of my paper work, except for my GGM birth certificate, which I am trying to locate in Italy and my GGF no record naturalization letters.

The certification of non-existence of naturalization has been the most difficult document for me to get. This is the response I got when I asked how to get this letter.
USCIS Genealogy Department wrote:If you need a certification of non-existence of a naturalization record for the immigrant, write to the following address and include a copy of our response letter we sent at an earlier date.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
ATTN: Records Operation Branch
1200 First Street NE
Washington, D.C. 20529-2204

SChiarini wrote:I keep hearing the New York consulate is very difficult.

Might be a moot point at the time of your appointment? Do you have an appointment? They are usually scheduled many months into the future due to backlogs. Last week I got offered my Philadelphia appointment, as I have all my documents, and the earliest is Feb. 2011! So get your appointment ASAP. You might find your appointment won't happen for a year plus.
SChiarini wrote:I put in for a search on USCIS and NARA - however they also require a letter from the county court (Eastern District) but when I went there they said they don't keep any records there? I also need a census report - where can I obtain that from?


I was told the census report should come from the department of commerce to be certified. I haven't gotten those. I am hoping for my non-existence document would suffice.

SChiarini wrote:Also, once I have the appropriate papers - where do I go to have the papers translated into Italian?


Contact the consulate you will be applying at, ask if they have a list of approved translators. Some consulates translate the documents for free as part of their service. If they don't have a list and don't translate them, search the internet for a translator. Most can work from scanned/photocopies that you can email out. They send back translations that you print and attach.

Translations need to be legalized at the consulate. (This is the step I am on, I would post more info but I just don't have it. I posted a question on this forum today asking for help. I have called and emailed the consulate for direction, no answers yet. I will post the info as I get it.

SChiarini wrote:I'm confused as to what an Apostille is.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille

An apostille is applied at the Department of State for the originating document. It basically is a cover letter applied to the document that states the signature of the underlying document is authentic and the document is stamped/numbered so that it can be recognized for use outside the US in a country that has signed the Hague agreement.

These apostilles do not need to be translated.

Here is the order that I use for each single document:
1. get original document
2. get apostille on original
3. get original document translated, print and attach
4. get the packet (Apostille, Original, Translation) legalized at consulate

Good luck, hope that helps...

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby jwazevedo » 26 Nov 2009, 17:23

Just a clarification to add to Mule's advice:

* The legalization step that Mule mentions is only necessary if you are taking the documents away with you to apply in another country. For most people, once you have your documents, the translations (for the certificates), and the associated apostilles, you're ready to present the package to the consulate. Once the consulate accepts the package, it's in their hands and your work is done. Except for the waiting.

Good luck,
Jerry

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Mulé
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby Mulé » 27 Nov 2009, 01:46

Thank you for the clarification. Sorry to have left the point out.

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby SChiarini » 28 Nov 2009, 05:25

Wow thank you both so much! I have no idea what I am doing!

There are some name discrepencies - on his death certificate it says Frank instead of Francesco- hopefully it won't be a big issue. On his declaration of intention papers his birthday is off by a year - but hopefully I can prove that it is him from his address. I called and made an appointment - the available date is Sept 2010 ... Crazy! Thank you for telling me to call right away!!

I'm just worried I'm going to have some issues to prove he was not naturalized! I'm still not 100% sure if I qualify - he filed for a Declaration of Intention but he never filed to become a US citizen... does that mean he renounced his right to citizenship in Italy by filing the first papers? I read some where on the message board that it didn't matter- the consulate only looks for those last papers? Just wanted to double (and triple) check

This has already cost me a small fortune - plus NY has started to charge fees ... *sigh*


If the death certificates are really old and kind of hard to read do you think I should send away for a copy ? I'm thinking it couldn't hurt... (more money though--ahh) :)


Also, when I have the no naturalization letter - I would have to send all 3/4 of them to that address in DC?

Sorry for all the questions

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby jwazevedo » 28 Nov 2009, 06:36

You'll see quite a discussion of name discrepancies if you search this forum, but the upshot is that some consulates are more particular than others and some discrepancies are more glaring than others. Quite often an anglicized name is not a problem. But some consulates are sticklers even there. Worse case, you'll need to amend the certificate.

You like won't need your declaration papers. What the consulate is interested in is the final step, the actual forswearing of allegiance to other countries. And it sounds like your relative didn't take that step. In that case, you want the "no record" paperwork from NARA, USCIS, local courts. That can take some legwork, but you've got plenty of time. ;)

Good luck.
Jerry

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby Mulé » 28 Nov 2009, 12:37

SChiarini wrote:I called and made an appointment - the available date is Sept 2010 ... Crazy! Thank you for telling me to call right away!!

You're welcome, crazy is mine, Feb. 2011!!!! I already have me documents. :(

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby SChiarini » 30 Nov 2009, 22:32

Hi again!

I am so frustrated! I received a letter in the mail today from USCIS thinking it was the letter stating they did not find naturalization papers from my GGF... ( why would they make it that easy though ) Instead ,they sent me an application for replacement/naturalization documents form?!? And it's $360 to apply...They think I'M the one applying for US citizenship?? I called customer service and they are no help - What on earth do I do now?? I can't possibly have asked for these documents because on my bank statement it said "USCIS genealogy search..." Plus the customer service gentleman I spoke to said they shouldn't have charged me to send me those papers - I'm like well, they did, and it's not even what I needed!

The only other thing he said was to call some freedom of information act number ... but I feel like they don't understand what I'm asking for ? That these naturalization papers aren't mine... Unless this is the same thing you two went through?

Thanks,
Stephanie

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Mulé
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby Mulé » 30 Nov 2009, 22:45

Nope - I don't recall paying a thing. I submitted a FOIA request using an old style form, not the new G### form for the search. I got a letter back, a plain letter stating no records could be found pertaining to my FOIA search. Then I copied that letter and sent it off to multiple locations for a "certified letter of non-existence of naturalization". I have YET to ever receive one of those responses back though. Not sure I am handling this request correctly, but the genealogy program people said to handle it this way, but what do they know. This is the ONLY document that I require... :( If anyone has any tips or advice, I would gladly listen. I just mailed another 3 letters requesting this document today, to include wording I would like to appear in their certified document, like full name of great grandfather, place of birth, date of birth, etc... stuff that links the name to my grand father...

SChiarini
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby SChiarini » 30 Nov 2009, 22:49

Which places did you send your letters to? :(

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby PeterTimber » 30 Nov 2009, 22:52

a good reference site is www.NIAF.org/citizenship/documents/faq.pdf

=Peter=
~Peter~

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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby Mulé » 30 Nov 2009, 23:14

Thanks Peter. The interesting link is USCIS FOIA.

3. To Request Certifications: Certification of Nonexistence of a Record involves an agency decision. The USCIS Office of Records Management prepares this documentation. Requests for this service should be addressed to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, ATTN: Records Service Branch, 1200 First Street, NE, 2nd Floor, Washington, D.C. 20529-2204.


Ha, I sent a letter there. :) So funny, these ppl will see 6+ letters all requesting the same thing. Sorry for all the postal spam.

These are the three places I sent to...

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
ATTN: Records Operations Branch
111 Massachusetts Avenue NW
4th Floor
Washington, D.C. 20529

"The old favored 111 Mass Ave document"

U.S. Dept of Homeland Security/USCIS
FOIA Division
P.O. Box 648010
Lee's Summit, MO 64064-8010

This is where I sent my FOIA request and form and where my reply came from.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
ATTN: Records Operation Branch
1200 First Street NE
Washington, D.C. 20529-2204

This is the address the genealogy program's customer service said for me to forward my "no records" to for the certification.

On my previous attempts, I send a very lame request letter as my cover letter, thinking they would look up the FOIA request and put it all together. After reading another persons post I decided to make a cover letter that indicated I would require they substantiate the identity of the subject of request by including date of birth, place of birth, parent's names, anything. Then I included documentation to support that information. I am not sure what I will get back, as I have never received anything back from any of my requests.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby johnnyonthespot » 01 Dec 2009, 01:07

Effective August 18, 2008, USCIS no longer processes Freedom of Information Act requests for naturalization documents. See this announcement.

SChiarini
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby SChiarini » 01 Dec 2009, 01:13

Thank you! That is what I submitted my request to- I asked them to do a genealogy search for 20$ and in return I received no letter, just a form to fill out to apply for replacement naturalization documents for $360? I don't know where to go from here....

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grandamn
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Re: Help starting Dual Citizenship process..

Postby grandamn » 01 Dec 2009, 01:34

i'm with you


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