Naturalization records...

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
User avatar
DeFilippis78
Master
Master
Posts: 1144
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 02:19

Naturalization records...

Postby DeFilippis78 » 07 Dec 2009, 15:32

How do you go about getting naturalization records when you dont have much info on the person. Well thats not totally true. I have an estimated date of birth, one ship manifest and one census that says he was naturalized but I need a paper with exact date so I know if it was before or after 1912. He was probably naturalized right on the border.

Also, I have a great grandmother who remianed an alien up until the 1930 census. Could she have passed on citizenship to her children or no, because the 1948 law?

Alicia

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Dec 2009, 15:45

DeFilippis78 wrote:How do you go about getting naturalization records when you dont have much info on the person. Well thats not totally true. I have an estimated date of birth, one ship manifest and one census that says he was naturalized but I need a paper with exact date so I know if it was before or after 1912. He was probably naturalized right on the border.

Also, I have a great grandmother who remianed an alien up until the 1930 census. Could she have passed on citizenship to her children or no, because the 1948 law?

Alicia


You may be better off trying to obtain an Italian birth certificate first. With the info on the ship's manifest, you can possibly determine the place and approximate date of birth; mailing a letter to Italy requesting his birth certificate costs just $0.98US and can sometimes get you a result in just a few weeks.

With the birth certificate in hand, obatinning naturalization documents will be much easier.

As to your great-grandmother, only her children born on or after January 1, 1948 received Italian citizenship from her. Unless you want to fight the issue in the Italian courts where, apparently, some people have been successful.

User avatar
DeFilippis78
Master
Master
Posts: 1144
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 02:19

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby DeFilippis78 » 07 Dec 2009, 15:53

I wouldnt bother with fighting it because all her children were born in the 30's.

On the ship manifest it says he was born around 1860 in Napoli. Thats all I know. Is that enough to get a birth certificate?

Also I read somewhere that its takes a very , very long time to get documents from Italy to America because they are busy tending to the things of their own town. Getting documents to us is the last thing they are worried about. Is that true?

Alicia

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Dec 2009, 16:14

DeFilippis78 wrote:I wouldnt bother with fighting it because all her children were born in the 30's.

On the ship manifest it says he was born around 1860 in Napoli. Thats all I know. Is that enough to get a birth certificate?

Also I read somewhere that its takes a very , very long time to get documents from Italy to America because they are busy tending to the things of their own town. Getting documents to us is the last thing they are worried about. Is that true?

Alicia


The cases involving the 1948 rule claim that it is unconstitutional on its face and thus all births to Italian women, regardless of the date, should be allowed to inherit citizenship. I know nothing about this Italian law firm other than that they persue this type of case and a member of another board indicated that they were very forthcoming with helpful info during a telephone conversation.

If your ancestor was indeed born in Comune di Napoli, his name and approximate year of birth may be all you need to obtain a birth certificate. Unfortuantely, it is quite possible that he was actually born in one of the many small comuni surrounding Naples and without knowing which one, well...

As to timing, my maternal grandparent's comune has responded to each of my several requests for documents concerning my grandparents, thier Italian-born children, and my great-grandparents in three weeks or less. On the other hand, my paternal grandparents comune has *never* responded to any of my requests; I finally had to enlist the help of someone living nearby to literally knock on the door and request my grandparents birth/marriage certificates in person.

Your milage may vary.

If you review this thread on another board, you will see that member SalvatoreDV is an American/Italian dual citizen recently moved to Naples and has offered to assist where he can.

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Dec 2009, 16:27

In what state did your ancestor die?

You should persue obtaining a copy of his death certificate; you may need to provide a copy when you request naturalization documents. Also, it will show his (most likely) correct date of birth as well as other useful info such as (possibly) his social security number.

With the social security number, or even without, you can request a copy of his original social security application form which may - or may not - include the names of his parents as well as his date of birth. See this site for details.

User avatar
DeFilippis78
Master
Master
Posts: 1144
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 02:19

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby DeFilippis78 » 07 Dec 2009, 16:45

Im not sure when he died but it was before 1920. On the 1920 census his wife was listed as a widow. He wouldnt have a social number because he was long dead before the goverment started doing that. He died in I believe Jersey City, NJ. Somwhere in between the 1910 and 1920 census is when he died. But I dont have an exact date.

Im only guessing he was born in Napoli.On his ship manifest, if it is the right one and really him, it says napoli was last residence. But that doesnt necessarily mean he was born there. I feel really stuck with this situation

Alicia

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Dec 2009, 16:56

This is a bit like a puzzle in that if you can't make progress in one area, you can move on to a different area. Eventually with persistence and luck, you complete the entire picture.

Visit this New Jersey Vital Records website for info on obtaining death certificates.

User avatar
DeFilippis78
Master
Master
Posts: 1144
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 02:19

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby DeFilippis78 » 07 Dec 2009, 17:05

Whats most important getting first, a birth certificate or naturalization record?

Alicia

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Dec 2009, 17:11

DeFilippis78 wrote:Whats most important getting first, a birth certificate or naturalization record?

Alicia


Well, since the naturalization can be a show-stopper, it is a good idea to concentrate your efforts there. Problem is, as you are already finding, obtaining naturalization documents without good, solid, info can be difficult. That is where birth and/or death certificates can come in mighty handy.

If you haven't already done so, go here and click the "About Index Search Requests" link on the right side of the page.

User avatar
DeFilippis78
Master
Master
Posts: 1144
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 02:19

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby DeFilippis78 » 07 Dec 2009, 17:21

I actually already did that for one great grandfather and am waiting to hear from them.

I have to do it for my great great grandfather ( hes the one Ive been discussing with you) but am hesitant because of that 1912 law. On the 1910 census it says he was naturalized. Some are telling me to forget it, and others tell me the 1912 law can be bypassed and go forward with looking for records

Alicia

PS- If he was naturalized around 1910, but lived in Jersey City, NJ, would he file for naturalization in New York? Or did they file somewhere in new Jersey?

User avatar
vj
Master
Master
Posts: 8069
Joined: 16 Aug 2002, 00:00

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby vj » 07 Dec 2009, 20:00

Here's a good starting place
From an earlier post:
http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... art=0.html

Biff83 wrote:Alicia,

If Giuseppe naturalized in Hudson county, the county clerk's office might be able to locate his records. Check the link below. If you have any questions, you can call the phone number at the top of the page.

http://www.hudsoncountyclerk.org/natural.htm

Biff

User avatar
DeFilippis78
Master
Master
Posts: 1144
Joined: 02 Dec 2009, 02:19

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby DeFilippis78 » 07 Dec 2009, 20:09

Okay. I thought they had to go to the nearest major city to petition for naturalization. Thanks!

Alicia

User avatar
vj
Master
Master
Posts: 8069
Joined: 16 Aug 2002, 00:00

Re: Naturalization records...

Postby vj » 07 Dec 2009, 20:18

DeFilippis78 wrote:Okay. I thought they had to go to the nearest major city to petition for naturalization. Thanks!

Alicia


Here's an article from the National Archives that might help:
http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/natur ... ation.html
Valarie

From the first naturalization law passed by Congress in 1790 through much of the 20th century, an alien could become naturalized in any court of record. Thus, most people went to the court most convenient to them, usually a county court.


Return to “Emigration, Immigration, Naturalization and Italian citizenship”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests