The Exact documents for Naturalization

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asecco1
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The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby asecco1 » 11 Dec 2009, 00:59

Objective: Applying for dual-citizenship

Case: Paternal Great Grandfather was Italian.

The Dates:
Great Grandfather's Birth: July 8th, 1887
Immigrated Dec 8th, 1912
Grandfathers birth: Feb 16th, 1926
Petition for Naturalization: May 31st, 1928

Hello All,

First I must say this forum is a great help and asset to anyone searching about this sort of information.

Secondly, I have found my grandfathers petition of naturalization and received a certified copy that has been notarized my the state of Illinois. I obtained these documents via the Illinois Regional Archives Depository. However, the consulate(s) website specifically states a record from the USCIS of his naturalization certificate. However, my grandfather never actually followed through with his petition and the documents I have state specifically the multiple appointments had been made and his absence at each and therefore never finalized.

So he never became a U.S. citizen, however, does having this document provide enough evidence that he was NOT naturalized at the time of my grandfathers birth? His petition has my grandfathers name on it and listed at 2 years old. Is it still necessary to contact the USCIS and receive a certificate from them saying he was never naturalized? It seems like the petition and the actual certificate are two different things. However, I'm not sure if a petition of naturalization alone is enough evidence.


Can someone should some light on this?

Thanks!

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 11 Dec 2009, 01:13

You will need to go through the process of requesting documents from USCIS and obtain a "No Records Found" letter therefrom.

Some consulates require additional documentation for proof of non-naturalization. Which consulate will you be applying at?

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asecco1
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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby asecco1 » 11 Dec 2009, 02:03

Hello johnnyonthespot,

Upon further examination of the document(4 pages), I have found that he after being absent four times, was issued a certificate of naturalization. The number and the date is on the bottom of the document and it is indeed after my grandfather's birthday!

I suppose I now need to figure out the hoops I need to jump through to obtain the certificate, however, given that I have the location and the certificate number it should be an easy process.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 11 Dec 2009, 02:20

asecco1 wrote:Hello johnnyonthespot,

Upon further examination of the document(4 pages), I have found that he after being absent four times, was issued a certificate of naturalization. The number and the date is on the bottom of the document and it is indeed after my grandfather's birthday!

I suppose I now need to figure out the hoops I need to jump through to obtain the certificate, however, given that I have the location and the certificate number it should be an easy process.


That is good news. With the certificate number, you can skip the USCIS Index Search and go directly to a "Record Request" instead. When you order documents from USCIS, be sure to check off the box to include an "Electronic copy" or E-Mail copy (whatever they are calling it these days. The photocopies sent out by USCIS are nearly always completely illegible; however the electronic copies (JPG images, if I recall correctly) can usually be adjusted (contrast/brightness) and printed successfully.

Also, not all consulates actually require the certificate. When I submitted my application to New York in 2008, they were satisfied with the Petition, so long as it included the signed and numbered Oath of Allegiance, as yours apparently does.

PS: It never ceases to amaze me how many of our ancestors became citizens without anyone seeming to know about it. In the case of both my maternal and paternal grandfathers, none of my living relatives were aware of either of them having naturalized. I began my research convinced that both died Italian and eventually found that both had, in fact, naturalized.

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asecco1
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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby asecco1 » 11 Dec 2009, 02:51

I filled out G-1041a 'Genealogy Records Request' and selected E-mail for the electronic format option.

I hope that it is satisfactory with the notarized petition and whatever documents I receive from the USCIS. I will be applying at the Detroit Consulate.

Now to officially start document collecting... apostilles, Italian translations and all! I'm curious how long it will all take. Waiting for the USCIS and waiting for the consulate to submit the documents and actually getting my passport. :)

Thanks for the prompt response!

P.S.

Will the consulate maintain my anglicized name of 'Anthony'? My great grandfather is Antonio Secco and his name was passed on.

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Mulé
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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby Mulé » 11 Dec 2009, 13:42

Most likely they will record your name EXACTLY as it appears on your birth certificate. :) Good luck and let us know how it turns out. I have yet to get my USCIS confirmation and file my application.

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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 11 Dec 2009, 13:59

Mulé wrote:Most likely they will record your name EXACTLY as it appears on your birth certificate. :) Good luck and let us know how it turns out. I have yet to get my USCIS confirmation and file my application.


Indeed. I was recorded and my Italian passport has my name exactly as it appears on my New York birth certificate.

Now, since my given name is Carmine and my surname is obviously Italian, this may not seem to be a big deal. However the interesting point is that all of my Italian documents also have the suffix "Jr" on them, and, as you may know, such suffixes are not used at all in the Italian naming system.

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asecco1
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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby asecco1 » 12 Dec 2009, 03:02

johnnyonthespot wrote:
Also, not all consulates actually require the certificate. When I submitted my application to New York in 2008, they were satisfied with the Petition, so long as it included the signed and numbered Oath of Allegiance, as yours apparently does.



Are you implying that it may not be necessary for me to wait for the USCIS to respond with a certified copy of the certificate? Speeds things up if thats the case.

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Re: The Exact documents for Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 12 Dec 2009, 12:29

asecco1 wrote:
johnnyonthespot wrote:
Also, not all consulates actually require the certificate. When I submitted my application to New York in 2008, they were satisfied with the Petition, so long as it included the signed and numbered Oath of Allegiance, as yours apparently does.



Are you implying that it may not be necessary for me to wait for the USCIS to respond with a certified copy of the certificate? Speeds things up if thats the case.


I can only relate my own experience. I submitted my application to the New York City consulate in late June, 2008 and had my approval letter in hand just 3 weeks later.

I did not have a copy (certified or not) of the actual naturalization certificate. I did submit a copy of my grandfather's Declaration, Petition, and Oath of Allegiance which I obtained from the Westchester County New York Archives. The documents were certified by the county clerk, attesting to the fact that they were official copies of documents obtained from the county archives.

I cannot promise that the same documents would suffice in NYC today, nor what other consulates may require.

[edit]

I want to add that when I finally did receive a copy of the actual certificate from USICS under the old FOIA procedure, it was completely useless. I wrote about the experience in this thread.


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