Citizenship for father and sibilings

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
User avatar
tsbonini
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 21:24

Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby tsbonini » 05 Jan 2010, 21:41

I am submitting my application to the Italian Consulate in Philadelphia for the acknowledgement of Italian citizenship "jure sanguinis" as a descendant of an Italian citizen, my great-grandfather. My sister would also like to apply, but she lives in New York which is another jurisdiction. When I spoke with the Consulate in Philadelphia, I was advised that she would need to submit her documents to the New York consulate since that is the relevant jurisdiction.

Questions:

First, if I submit my documents to Philadelphia and my application is processed and approved does this mean that my father is automatically approved because he is in the line I am utilizing for citizenship (me -> father -> grandfather -> great-grandfather)?

Second, if the answer to the first question is yes, does this mean that my sister will only need to provide documents back to my father?

Thank your for your assistance.

User avatar
mler
Master
Master
Posts: 1627
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 00:00

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby mler » 05 Jan 2010, 21:56

No and no, unfortunately. Your father will be identified as eligible for citizenship recognition, but the Italian government only recognizes the citizenship of those who actually apply. If your father lives in either Philadelphia or NY, he can apply using the same documents as you or your sister.

Generally, relatives applying different consulates require their own document sets. New York has been rather difficult of late, however, so if your citizenship is recognized, it may be helpful to her. They will have a difficult time denying the legitimacy of a claim that has already been accepted by another consulate.

I would strongly suggest that your father apply. His relationship to the original emigrating Italian is closer than yours, and although there is no generational limit to eligibility, this is a psychological plus. In addition, the acceptance of his application--whether in NY or in Philly--will definitely move the application in the other jurisdiction.

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jan 2010, 22:14

tsbonini wrote:I am submitting my application to the Italian Consulate in Philadelphia for the acknowledgement of Italian citizenship "jure sanguinis" as a descendant of an Italian citizen, my great-grandfather. My sister would also like to apply, but she lives in New York which is another jurisdiction. When I spoke with the Consulate in Philadelphia, I was advised that she would need to submit her documents to the New York consulate since that is the relevant jurisdiction.

Questions:

First, if I submit my documents to Philadelphia and my application is processed and approved does this mean that my father is automatically approved because he is in the line I am utilizing for citizenship (me -> father -> grandfather -> great-grandfather)?

Second, if the answer to the first question is yes, does this mean that my sister will only need to provide documents back to my father?

Thank your for your assistance.


Is your father desirous of having his citizenship recognized? If so, it would make more sense for him to apply instead of you. Once his citizenship has been recognized, all he would need to do is to (belatedly) register you and your sister's birth using the process spelled out under "Birth" on this page. I did this for my adult son through the NYC consulate and had his citizenship approved/recognized in less than a week.

If you prefer to "go first", then, no, your father's citizenship is not automatically granted but is effectively determined. That means that your father can at a later date submit his own application with a reference to your file or case number. Your father most likely would not need to provide any documentation other than proof of his identity since the documents are already in your file. The same process would apply to your sister - she would submit her application along with her certified/translated/apostiled birth certificate and reference your file number for all the other documentation.

User avatar
tsbonini
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 21:24

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby tsbonini » 05 Jan 2010, 22:18

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, my father would fall under a third jurisdiction, San Francisco. As you noted, perhaps having my father submit the documents I have gathered to the Consulate in San Francisco would make sense. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but if my father applies and is approved then my sister and I would be able to refer to him as our source rather than our great-grandfather. This would reduce cost and paperwork on our side, but would likely take longer and require more involvement from my father.

User avatar
mler
Master
Master
Posts: 1627
Joined: 01 Apr 2006, 00:00

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby mler » 05 Jan 2010, 22:25

Correct, but from what I've heard, Philadelphia is one of the better consulates with which to deal, so you may want to go ahead with this in Philly.

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jan 2010, 22:25

tsbonini wrote:Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, my father would fall under a third jurisdiction, San Francisco. As you noted, perhaps having my father submit the documents I have gathered to the Consulate in San Francisco would make sense. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but if my father applies and is approved then my sister and I would be able to refer to him as our source rather than our great-grandfather. This would reduce cost and paperwork on our side, but would likely take longer and require more involvement from my father.


You and your sister would most likely not have to do anything at all. As I noted above, many consulates now permit the registration of birth at any age (conceptually, this procedure was presumed to apply to newborn and/or minor children). Once your father's citizenship is approved, he simply fills out a form, attaches his children's certified/translated/apostiled birth certificates and mails/takes it all to his consulate's AIRE office. The entire process takes just a week or two.

User avatar
tsbonini
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 21:24

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby tsbonini » 05 Jan 2010, 23:03

Thank you for the responses. I apologize johnnyonthespot, I did not see your reply when I first wrote my response.

What I would like to do is minimize the amount of time, money and effort expended by my various family members in obtaining citizenship. I have collected all of the necessary materials, including translations for submission to Philadelphia. If it makes sense, I will give the materials to my father and allow him to make the initial submission. However, if I am able to proceed with my submission and my sister and father can reference my file number rather than requesting additional sets of birth, marriage and death certificates that might be easiest.

Thank you again for all of your advice.

User avatar
johnnyonthespot
Master
Master
Posts: 5229
Joined: 04 Aug 2008, 15:01
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jan 2010, 23:36

tsbonini wrote:Thank you for the responses. I apologize johnnyonthespot, I did not see your reply when I first wrote my response.

What I would like to do is minimize the amount of time, money and effort expended by my various family members in obtaining citizenship. I have collected all of the necessary materials, including translations for submission to Philadelphia. If it makes sense, I will give the materials to my father and allow him to make the initial submission. However, if I am able to proceed with my submission and my sister and father can reference my file number rather than requesting additional sets of birth, marriage and death certificates that might be easiest.

Thank you again for all of your advice.


Since you are dealing with so many different consulates, it might be worth your while to contact your father's and sister's consulates to ensure they will allow referencing your file number in their applications.

Each consulate is different and what works with one does not always work with another.

User avatar
Mulé
Elite
Elite
Posts: 266
Joined: 16 Nov 2009, 18:38

Re: Citizenship for father and sibilings

Postby Mulé » 05 Jan 2010, 23:54

My 2 cents, since you have all documents/paperwork completed apply at the consulate that offers the soonest appointment. If you don't have your appointment booked for Philly already, be ready to wait for more than a year. :(

I have the SAME situation. I have done all the leg work and want to apply. My mother would accept the citizenship and would file first for me, but the appointment date in Philly is 1 year + out. They offered me an appointment in February of 2011 when I called in December. I am feeling selfish applying first because I don't want to exclude my brother, sister and mother from my hard work gathering documents for the past 12 years. Yeah, first document I got was in 1997, I am ashamed it took me so long on and off.
johnnyonthespot wrote:Is your father desirous of having his citizenship recognized?
So when I contacted the Boston consulate they offered up that my MOTHER apply first in Philly as most of my documents would be sent to philly since that is the originating jurisdiction of the majority of my documents. I don't even know if my mother will be alive in another year, so I am moving ahead with applying for myself and insisted that my mother was not interested in applying at this time, only then would Boston give me an appointment.
...
If you prefer to "go first", then, no, your father's citizenship is not automatically granted but is effectively determined. That means that your father can at a later date submit his own application with a reference to your file or case number.
This is the part that interested me, being the first time I have heard it. Sorry to butt into this thread, but are there more details on going about this? Now I don't feel so selfish for "going first".
Your father most likely would not need to provide any documentation other than proof of his identity since the documents are already in your file. The same process would apply to your sister - she would submit her application along with her certified/translated/apostiled birth certificate and reference your file number for all the other documentation.
Although I did request an appointment for myself, my brother and sister at the same time, so after the document review, I hope we can all make it in there to sign the application since my sister is a seasonal worker and works very far away. :( It gives me hope that she could later apply with a file/case number if she can't make the appointment instead of having to get this huge stack of documents again at a considerable cost.


Return to “Emigration, Immigration, Naturalization and Italian citizenship”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests