what would you do?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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mazzini
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what would you do?

Postby mazzini » 27 Jan 2010, 17:50

A few posts below I told of Homeland Security not being able to locate my maternal gf's file and sending me a No Record Certificate.

This was after NARA had located his declaration, petition with oath of allegiance but no Certificate of Naturalization.

I had the NARA documents sent to the U.S. District Ct. in NY. The court certified that indeed, my gf had become a citizen.

And it was after my mother's birth and I was born after 1948.

So right now, I believe I have everything needed by the LA Consulate on their website.

The Certificate is not necessary if I have the other 2.

In the meantime, I sent in another request for Homeland Security to recheck the records.

Yesterday, I received uncertified photocopies from their genealogy section that included my gf's Certificate.

But here's the kicker: on the Certificate his name Vincent (was Vincenzo) is crossed off and now reads "James" as a first name.

My mother remember him going by James.

I have no clue when he changed his name or if he did it legally. The petition, etc. still reads Vincenzo/Vincent and the US DC still has him as Vincent/Vincenzo.

the only place James appears is in his Certificate.

I'm still waiting on his death certificate so I have no idea what it states.

Assuming his death certificate reads Vincenzo - would you produce the James Certificate at the Consulate or just the NARA/US Ct. documents? I still have the No Record Homeland Security Certification.

If his death certificate reads James where would I go to find out if he changed it? Is the crossing out of Vincent on his certificate and adding James a legal name change? ala Vincenzo/Vincent?

What would this do to his Italian documents, if any.

I don't believe he ever did anything in NY court to change it. But if he did, where do I look? There's nothing about a search on the NY lower courts' website.

I don't want to open up a can of worms I can't close.

The LA Consulate states we must list discrepancies but there isn't any if I don't produce it.

Thanks.

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mazzini
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Re: what would you do?

Postby mazzini » 28 Jan 2010, 05:18

The deal has been settled. No need to respond.

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Mulé
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Re: what would you do?

Postby Mulé » 30 Jan 2010, 17:23

How did this turn out? What was on the death certificate?

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mazzini
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Re: what would you do?

Postby mazzini » 02 Feb 2010, 04:41

Still waiting for the death certificate. But I don't know if I will be able to find it. The Consulate said it wasn't necessary since I will be getting citizenship through my mother.

Also, they said I didn't need my GF's actual certificate. He signed the oath, NARA has the stuff and the federal court certified he was a citizen after my mother was born.

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Re: what would you do?

Postby gfharper » 17 Feb 2010, 01:28

I have a new problem. I've found where my grandparents were born and have requested birth certificates. The problem is my father, who was born in this country in 1916, has no birth certificate!!! He appears on the censuses of 1920 and 1930, but he and his older brothers' births apparently were never registered. The sister who came later was registered. My question is, how does this affect the jure sanguinis process?

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Re: what would you do?

Postby Mulé » 17 Feb 2010, 02:14

gfharper wrote:I have a new problem. I've found where my grandparents were born and have requested birth certificates. The problem is my father, who was born in this country in 1916, has no birth certificate!!! He appears on the censuses of 1920 and 1930, but he and his older brothers' births apparently were never registered. The sister who came later was registered. My question is, how does this affect the jure sanguinis process?

My grandfather was born in the US in 1917, no birth certificate. Here is what I did. I gathered all supporting documents, went to the county court, and made a court order to demand the dept. of health register the delayed birth. This is the procedure for PA. Each state is different, but you want the vital records branch to record a delayed birth certificate. Then you request the certificate like usual once it is created. :) I got my certificate for my gf who was birthed at home and didn't ever have it recorded besides a baptism certificate. Luckily he always used the same date, on SS, baptism, army records, school records, etc... was easy to find 5+ proofs of same dates, and information. Good luck...

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Re: what would you do?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Feb 2010, 02:26

What state was he born in? Many states have a process for creating a delayed birth certificate.

On the other hand, just to give you something to think about...

My mother has (had) nine siblings, two of whom were born in Italy and the rest in New York. I have obtained birth certificates for 7 of the ten and each of the New York certificates is completely screwed up. Parents names are spelled differently on each and every one of them. My mother's record was entered without a given name, just "Unamed female child".

It was in the process of trying to finally (she is 84 years old) get my mother's name on her birth certificate that I learned of the problems with the others. The records we *did* locate were only with the assistance of a very helpful vital records clerk in the smallish (~25,000 population) town in Westchester County where they all lived. Had this been a larger city, we may never have found the records.

No one could explain why there are so many errors; my mother was the only child born in a hospital, the others were all born at home with the assistance of a midwife. Yet, my mother's record was just as messed up as the others.
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)

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Re: what would you do?

Postby gfharper » 17 Feb 2010, 02:54

He was born in California. So is that what you need, 5 documents with the date of birth on it instead of a birth certificate? I don't know the process for creating a delayed birth certificate in California, but does it take a long time? I need all these documents by next May. It takes a long time to get an appointment at the consulate.

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Re: what would you do?

Postby PeterTimber » 17 Feb 2010, 05:07

Thed reason why the name change from Vincenzo (Vincent) to James (Jimmy) was that it became customary to supplant some Italian first names with english "other " names. It started in the East (most likely NY) where to this day Italian Vincenzo are called Jimmy, Patsy for Pasquale and a few others. The consulates are aware of this sociological name change and are probably lenient with any similar deviation in the first name. =Peter=
~Peter~

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Re: what would you do?

Postby Mulé » 17 Feb 2010, 12:56

gfharper wrote:He was born in California. So is that what you need, 5 documents with the date of birth on it instead of a birth certificate? I don't know the process for creating a delayed birth certificate in California, but does it take a long time? I need all these documents by next May. It takes a long time to get an appointment at the consulate.

California has a much simpler form/court order process which can be found in this PDF found on this site.

Don't worry, you have plenty of time to gather everything for this delayed birth registration and for your appointment.

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mazzini
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Re: what would you do?

Postby mazzini » 17 Feb 2010, 21:15

thanks Peter.

my mother always told me that Vincent was James. Didn't make sense.


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