Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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DeFilippis78
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Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 18:35

Im aware of this law
Alicia

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 09 Feb 2010, 18:54

Well, if he didn't naturalize, then the 1912 law does not apply; of that we can be sure.

There was a time when it was thought that only the San Francisco consulate seemed to be aware of this law and, even then, they had the date worng (they were using June 14 which I believe is the date the law was signed rather that its effective date of July 1, 1912).

More recently, it has been coming up in regards to other consulates.

For reference, the Italian law is here http://www.italgiure.giustizia.it/nir/1 ... _2427.html

And San Francisco's jure sanguinis instructions, http://www.conssanfrancisco.esteri.it/N ... ZIONI2.doc where can be read, "ANCESTORS NATURALIZED BEFORE JUNE 14, 1912 CANNOT TRANSMIT CITIZENSHIP (EVEN TO CHILDREN BORN BEFORE THEIR NATURALIZATION)"
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 19:00

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Mulé
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby Mulé » 09 Feb 2010, 19:21

DeFilippis78 wrote:Its strange because I asked this guy at the consulate. So he emailed me a document and said " read this very carefully and let me know if there is still doubt." So I read the document and there was no mention of any 1912 law what so ever. So I replied to him " this doesnt answer my question, there is nothing in the document about 1912" So he replies " again just read the document and get back to me if there is a problem" Well i read it again...no 1912 law. So I thought this was a shady way of telling me its not going to be an issue if he naturalized before then. But Im worried

Alicia

I would have done exactly as he asked, and replied that there is no doubt. If the document didn't outline any of your concerns, maybe they shouldn't be a concern. :)

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 19:27

Thats what I thought too.
Alicia

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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby Mulé » 09 Feb 2010, 19:32

What was the document that the consulate emailed you?
Also, what if the person didnt naturalize at all (which it seems to be the case with grandfather) Is the 1912 law still in affect?

If your grandfather never naturalized, you should be ok. What is your concern with the 1912 law? Sorry I am slow on the uptake. :(

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 19:39

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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby Mulé » 09 Feb 2010, 19:58

My great grandfather was born September 1906, so obviously Im hoping if he naturalized it was after that date.

Where was your ggf born in 1906?
When did your ggf come to the US?
alone or with his parents?
at what age?
Have you checked the ship manifests?
Have you found their arrivals?
Sometimes the naturalization status is noted on the logs, as others have pointed out in threads.

I am interested in your case, just not sure of the specifics. If your ggf was born here in 1906, he would be American by birth and no need for naturalization, so it leads me to believe he was born in Italy in 1906. So then I would want to know when they arrived in America, which would most likely be after 1906, so the USCIS would have your documents if any were applied for. Or am I missing something...?

My advice is to make your appointment now and at least get the ball rolling. It is my understanding that not much happens at the first appointment anyhow. I had everything in order, and I still was not "allowed" to apply until the official has had sufficient time to scrutinize my document copies.

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 20:05

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tonyric
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby tonyric » 09 Feb 2010, 20:16

If I remember correctly, prior to this date all naturalizations were handled by the local authorities hence the federal government would not have these records. IF the local authorities have no record of him naturalizing then I would think you are in the clear.

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Mulé
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby Mulé » 09 Feb 2010, 20:23

DeFilippis78 wrote:So if Ben naturalized before 1906, Im not eligible, but USCIS wouldnt have these records, so who would?
I would think that if he naturalized before 1912 you would not be eligible, due to the 1912 law.

What does the 1920 census say for the wife and family?
What does the 1930 census say for the wife and family?

Any NAturalizations or ALiens?

Did Ben ever return to Italy to visit family, any multiple trips where you can check other ship manifests for clues to citizenship/naturalization?

Do you know if your GG grandmother ever naturalized, or was required to do so at any point? Did she apply for a social security card, when did she die?

When was Ben and spouse married?
Where was Ben and spouse married?

If Ben was naturalized while married, his spouse should have been too, I think. If you could note that she was listed as ALien on 1920 census, and 1930s, etc, you can try to find her alien registration card or other documents supporting that there was no naturalization while they were married and together, which you would know if it was pre or post arrival in the US.

Also look for any alien registration cards (for gggf and gggm) or WWI draft cards that would list the citizenship status.

I hope some of these ideas might be of some help.

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 20:31

His wife remained an alien as far as I saw on the census. I think on one it marked her as naturalized but 9 years before she came here so obviously thats a mistake.

Alicia

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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby Mulé » 09 Feb 2010, 20:47

DeFilippis78 wrote:His wife remained an alien as far as I saw on the census. I think on one it marked her as naturalized but 9 years before she came here so obviously thats a mistake. She didnt get a social because she died in 1935. They married in NJ and Im waiting for a copy of the certificate.He never registered for a draft because he died before both world wars. He never returned to Italy nor did she. Where do you get an alien registration card?

Alicia

My GGF has a 1917 WWI (1914-1918) draft card. Maybe yours did not due to his age at the time, not sure. Might be worth checking into though if you haven't exhausted that possibility. Alien registration cards I think started in the 1940s, so that might not be of any help for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Registration_Act

I would still make the appointment and present what you got. :)

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 09 Feb 2010, 20:50

Thanks for all the tips.

Alicia

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Re: Has anyone had a consulate bypass 1912 law?

Postby Mulé » 09 Feb 2010, 20:57

good luck, let us know how it turns out.


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