Reverse immigration

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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mozzie
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Reverse immigration

Postby mozzie » 01 Mar 2010, 01:16

My Grandparents left Trieste in 1910 for Ellis Island then Cleveland.
Regrettably my Grandmother died in 1924 and my Grandfather returned to Trieste in 1925 with his 7 children ( one of these was my Father).
Is there any databases that I can search to get some details of his return?

Thank you in advance.

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby pink67 » 01 Mar 2010, 07:47

Unfortunately there are no databases for the return trips to Italy.
If your Grandfather was an american citizen then you could find him in this database on the Ancestry.com site:

U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925

Which is his name?

Laura

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby mozzie » 01 Mar 2010, 08:18

Hi Laura,

Thank you for that. His name was Kristijan Mozina, Born in 1878 in Skrilje.
Ellis island records show his nationality as Austrian, which is correct as it was pre World War 1.

I cannot find any naturalisation records for him, I can only assume that he was never naturalised.

The only records that I have been able to find are my Father's Birth certificate and my Grandmother's Death certificate.

David

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby pink67 » 01 Mar 2010, 09:01

Thank you for the update David :D ,

Looks like your grandfather was born in Skrilje, now a village in Slovenia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrilje

Is this death certificate correct for your grandmother?

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxcj9CA

Her father's name was John Kretic... :?

just for references, the 1920 census:

1920 United States Federal Census
about Christ Mozenoc
Name: Christ Mozenoc
[Christ Mozenor]
Home in 1920: Cleveland Ward 6, Cuyahoga, Ohio
Age: 43 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Birthplace: Croatia
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Frances
Father's Birth Place: Croatia
Mother's Birth Place: Croatia
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Rent
Year of Immigration: 1911
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Image: 591
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Christ Mozenoc 43 stated he was an alien...
Frances Mozinor 36
Albina Mozinor 9
Evangeline Mozinor 9
Dora Mozinor 5
Christine Mozinor 1 4/12
Antonio Maler 49
[44]
John Canta 39
[38]

page 1:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxcliji
page 2:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TscCbYA


Laura

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby pink67 » 01 Mar 2010, 09:11

From the military enlistment for the First World War for Christian, you can see his birth date:

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Krist Mogina
Name: Krist Mogina
City: Cleveland
County: Cuyahoga
State: Ohio
Birth Date: 16 Aug 1876
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1831701
DraftBoard: 4

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVG320r

Laura

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby mozzie » 01 Mar 2010, 10:35

Thank you Laura,
The death Certificate was correct.
I know they lived in Bradley Road, from the death certificate and on my father's Birth Certificate.
It is just that the birthdate on the WW1 Registration Card is different from what I have been led to believe, that my Grandfathers birthday was 03 October 1878.
I sincerely thank you for the information that you have given, it has helped me very much.
The reason I was asking about reverse immigration is that when my Grandfather returned with 7 children where did they go, what did they do?. I know my Father was conscripted into the Italian Army in 1940 (his name was Kristijan as well). If I could find where they went to I could get Military Records and any other records such as Marriages and Deaths.

David

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby pink67 » 01 Mar 2010, 11:11

You're welcome David...

I just noticed one thing... on their arrival manifest ion 1910, both Kristian and Frances stated their last residence was (looks like) Sv. Kriz..

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0010

I believe the place was Sveti Križ about 2 miles far from Skrilje :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipavski_Kri%C5%BE

Kristian stated he was leaving his father Franz Mozina in this town, so, it's strongly possible that he decided to return to his father's home, having so many little children and needing help.

Just my thoughts...

Laura

I'm adding:

They stated also they were joining Kristyan's uncle Franz Batic in Cleveland....
Possible 1907 arrival manifest for Franc Batic, place of last residence and birth Sv. Kriz :!:

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0018

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby PeterTimber » 01 Mar 2010, 16:39

Dear David there are several Slovenia Genealogy Links at www.genealogylinks.net/europe/slovenia/index.html which may be helpful to you. =Peter=
~Peter~

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby mozzie » 01 Mar 2010, 22:50

Thank you for that Laura and Peter,

The reason that I am persuing the Italian locations, is that on my Father's naturalisation documents, and other information that I have been able to find is that he was conscripted into the Italian Army whilst he was in Irdija

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/Items_l ... 0&T=I&C=21

If you open the digitised image of Kristjan Mozina (Naturalisation File) it is covered in there.

The Slovenian links and the translation of Sv. Kritz are fantastic. I have never had the opportunity of travelling to Slovenia or Italy, ( I am in Australia) now as the years progress, it is getting more urgent to see my ancestor's home towns. I have not seen my Father since 1968 and never met my Grandfather. All I have is records that I can find and several photos. I will upload two photos that are of a grave that I am led to believe contain my Father and my Grandfather. The background appears to be consistent with Sveti Kriz.

David

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby pink67 » 02 Mar 2010, 21:59

David,

from the Naturalization papers for Khristian and his wife Leopoldina I noticed two things:

She stated they were married on June 6, 1946 in Zagreb

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagreb

and that them both stated they obtained a Passport or Certificate of Identity on 17/7/51 from the town of Bagnoli (page 7 of Leopoldina's Naturalization papers, page 10 of Khristina's naturalization's papers) ....
Do you know if they lived also in Italy before their emigration?

Laura

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby mozzie » 02 Mar 2010, 22:33

Laura,

From another file that is not digitised on the Australian Archives Site ( I accessed it before comuulsory digitisation was introduced), I have the following information regarding my Father...

Born Cleveland Ohio 27 July 1920
Returned to Italy/Yugoslavia 1924/5
Went to school in Italy as there were no local schools left in 1932
Lived in Skrilja worked as farmer 1938
Conscripted by Italian Army in Idira 1940 22B subsector of the Border Guard
Served vith the victory band
Parachutist course near Rome 1942
Sent to Africa 1942
Special Slovene Batallion in Tunisia 1943
Captured by British 1943
Served as a Cook with RAF in Algiers
Seconded to Allied RAF, all Slovines sent to Yugoslavia 1944
Travelled to Dubrovnic by British Ship the joined Partisan Army at that time liberated by Russians, Served with Yougoslav Airforce 2nd Regement
Discharged, went home to Skrilje (Trieste zone B - yugoslavia) 1946
Went to Trbovlje, to work as a coal miner 1947
Escaped from Yugoslavia, crossed Sabitino mountains, crossed the Italian Border near Saint Mauro 17 October 1950
Went to Gradisca (where his two sisters lived), reported to the questura, sent to Gorizia
Capua Camp 1950/1
Bagnoli Camp 17 July 1951
Departed Bremerhaven on Castelbianco
Arrived Melbourne Australia 27 December 1951.

This moving around and Borders changing is really making this complicated.

David

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Re: Reverse immigration

Postby mozzie » 06 Mar 2010, 03:05

Here are the two photos of the Grave of my Grandfather and Father

http://img709.imageshack.us/i/miste012.jpg/
http://img20.imageshack.us/i/miste011.jpg/

The background appears to be consistent with Sveti Kriz, for what I can compare to Google Earth.

David


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