Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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italianstall10n
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Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby italianstall10n » 05 Apr 2010, 23:06

Greetings,

I believe I know the answer to this question, but I am in denial today... : ).. I found out my GGF became naturalized less than three months before my GF was born, therefore disqualifying us for Italian citizenship. Also, my GF was born before 1948, therefore disqualifying us from the maternal citizenship line (his grandfather never revoked his citizenship, but the maternal line dies before 1948..).

My question is to make sure all hope is lost, and that the guidelines are very strict, and they do not bend the rules for close dates (IE less than three months). Or if there are any success stories with very close dates... Thanks for the help!

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Apr 2010, 23:53

Sad to say, things do not seem to be going your way. I am not aware of any consulate ever breaking the rule as you are hoping.

If you really, really, want to proceed, there is only one possible avenue that I am aware of: some people have had success in the Italian courts by challenging the 1948 rule on the mother's side.

The cases involving the 1948 rule claim that it is unconstitutional on its face and thus all births to Italian women, regardless of the date, should be allowed to inherit citizenship. I know nothing about this Italian law firm other than that they persue this type of case and a member of another board indicated that they were very forthcoming with helpful info during a telephone conversation.
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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby DeFilippis78 » 06 Apr 2010, 01:37

I have been in the same place your at with a great grandfather becoming a citizen 4 months before my grandfathers birth. Let me tell you, it is a bitter pill to swallow being that close. As far as Ive learned there is not a way around it. Whats done is done, its not meant to be. Luckily for me I found another branch in my family tree that makes me eligible.

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby mler » 06 Apr 2010, 02:16

A legal challenge would be both lengthy and costly; nor is there any guarantee of success. Italian courts do not follow the rules of precedent as do U.S. courts so that even if someone has been successful in the past, it would not help your case.

Since your gf was, at one time, an Italian citizen, you are elegible for a shortened residency route to citizenship (I believe three years). Is there any possibility through your mother's line?

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italianstall10n
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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby italianstall10n » 06 Apr 2010, 14:14

mler wrote:A legal challenge would be both lengthy and costly; nor is there any guarantee of success. Italian courts do not follow the rules of precedent as do U.S. courts so that even if someone has been successful in the past, it would not help your case.

Since your gf was, at one time, an Italian citizen, you are elegible for a shortened residency route to citizenship (I believe three years). Is there any possibility through your mother's line?


Can you explain the three years concept, because I read about that and did not fully understand it. Does that mean, since my grandfather was eligible for Italian citizenship (or in a sense was a citizen) before 1948, his descendants can do that shortened stay in Italy? Let me fully explain. His mother (my GGM) was a born US citizen, and his grandfather (my g-g-gf) was an italian citizen, so I believe what your saying is my grandfather was a citizen for a short while? Before the 1948 law? Which makes me eligible for the short stay?

As for my mothers line, we know her father is either italian or greek, but have no legal proof... So essentially no..

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby johnnyonthespot » 06 Apr 2010, 15:19

Italy offers Naturalization to anyone under certain circumstances. Simplified, you must reside legally in Italy continuously for 10 years. If, however, you can show that you are descended from an Italian parent, or grandparent (I don't believe you can go back further than that; I may be wrong), then the 10 year residency requirement is cut to 3 years. This works even if the line was "broken" when an ancestor lost his/her Italian citizenship.

After the 10 (or 3) year residency, you apply for naturalization as an Italian citizen. While not the same as jure sanguinis recognition, for all practical purposes the effect is identical.

The biggest probelm for most people is that, while residing legally in Italy for the required period, you will not be allowed to hold a job or earn income of any kind. The only exception being if you are resident on a student visa, you are permitted to work no more than 20 hours per week.

See the second paragraph below:

WAYS TO BECOME AN ITALIAN CITIZEN
AUTOMATICALLY 1. by having an Italian parent(s); 2. by being born in Italy: including cases in which the parents are unknown, stateless or do not transmit their own citizenship to their child according to the legislation of the State to which they belong, as well as children found abandoned in Italy and for whom it is impossible to determine status civitatis (citizenship); 3. through paternal or maternal recognition while the child is a minor (in cases in which the child recognised is no longer a minor, he/she is obliged to elect to become a citizen within one year of recognition); 4. by adoption, both if the foreign minor is adopted by an Italian citizen by means of the Italian Judicial Authorities, as well as in the case in which adoption is granted abroad and made effective in Italy through a writ, issued by the Juvenile Court and registered with the Civil Registry. If the adoptee is no longer a minor he/she can become a naturalised Italian citizen after 5 years of legal residence in Italy (see How to Apply: Naturalisation).


HOW TO APPLY
1. Declaration of desire to become a citizen; If the foreigner is of Italian descent (up to the 2nd degree) he/she can obtain citizenship in any of the following cases: - by serving in the Italian armed forces; - by becoming a subordinate employee of the Italian State, even abroad; - by residing legally in Italy for at least two years after reaching legal age. If the foreigner was born in Italian territory he/she can obtain citizenship by residing legally and uninterruptedly in Italy from birth up to legal age. 2. Marriage to an Italian citizen; The requirements include: legal residence in Italy for at least 6 months after marriage or 3 years of matrimony if residing abroad; valid marriage certificate; absence of criminal record; absence of impediments associated with national security. Applications for citizenship are to be addressed to the Ministry of the Interior and presented to the Prefecture in the Province of residence, if residing in Italy, or the diplomatic-consular authorities if residing abroad. 3. Naturalizzazione requirements include: 10 years of legal residence; sufficient income; absence of criminal record; renunciation of original citizenship (where foreseen). the number of years can be reduced to: 3 years of legal residence for descendents of former Italian citizens by birth, up to the 2nd degree, and for foreigners born in Italian national territory; 4 years of legal residence for citizens of European Community Member States; 5 years of legal residence for displaced persons or refugees, as well as for legal-age foreigners adopted by Italian citizens; 7 years of legal residence as the child of an Italian parent; no period of residence is required for foreigners who have served the State for a period of at least 5 years, even abroad. Application for naturalisation must be addressed to the President of the Republic (Presidente della Repubblica) and presented to the Prefecture in the Province of residence.

http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/Am ... tadinanza/


[edited to remove reference to great-grandparent in first paragraph above]
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DeFilippis78
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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby DeFilippis78 » 06 Apr 2010, 15:33

This is good news though in a sense . If someone is not eligible through jure san., a cut from 10 years to 3 years is significant. But because of the guidelines with working it would only be good for people who are retiring and already have an American pension or income to live off of. At least that would be the case for me. But still, its nice to know not all hope is lost :)

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby italianstall10n » 06 Apr 2010, 16:55

Johnnyonthespot-

You said that you can become naturalized in three years from the great grandparent ancestor line, but in the paragraph it says only up to the second degree. Wouldnt that mean I could only get it from my grandfather? and it would not go father back then that, to my grandfather?

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby DeFilippis78 » 06 Apr 2010, 17:27

I was wondering the same thing. Is second degree myself, than a parent? Or is it my parent and grandparent, which still wouldnt lead back to a great grandparent. I thought great grandparent was 3rd degree.

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby johnnyonthespot » 06 Apr 2010, 17:39

I think you are both correct. In the first part of my post I mentioned that I wasn't certain how far back you could go; then I added the paragraphs from the Washington Embassy website which does indeed say "(up to the 2nd degree)."

Sorry.
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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby italianstall10n » 07 Apr 2010, 19:41

I have another question. If my father did go the route of living in italy for three years in order to become a naturalized Italian dual citizen, would that pass to me or not? How would this help my fathers children become dual-citizens?

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Apr 2010, 19:53

I believe his minor children would become citizens at the same time he did. There would be no impact that I am aware of for children older than the age of majority (18? 21?).

There are folks at the ExpatsInItaly board ( http://expatsinitaly.com/phpbbforum/viewforum.php?f=2 ) who are really good at these particular issues...
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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby italianstall10n » 07 Apr 2010, 22:08

johnnyonthespot wrote:I believe his minor children would become citizens at the same time he did. There would be no impact that I am aware of for children older than the age of majority (18? 21?).

There are folks at the ExpatsInItaly board ( http://expatsinitaly.com/phpbbforum/viewforum.php?f=2 ) who are really good at these particular issues...


I think the impact would be the same as a regular citizen. Above it says in the statement you copied that an automatic way of becoming a citizen is by having an Italian parent. I do not think there really is any difference between being a naturalized Italian or an Italian by blood when it comes to legal rights... who knows though I guess. I am assuming that means I can automatically become a citizen once my dad becomes a citizen.

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Re: Exceptions to Naturalization timeline

Postby johnnyonthespot » 08 Apr 2010, 01:48

italianstall10n wrote:I think the impact would be the same as a regular citizen. Above it says in the statement you copied that an automatic way of becoming a citizen is by having an Italian parent. I do not think there really is any difference between being a naturalized Italian or an Italian by blood when it comes to legal rights... who knows though I guess. I am assuming that means I can automatically become a citizen once my dad becomes a citizen.


Except that your parent was not an Italian citizen at the time of your birth nor did he becvome a citizen while you were a minor child.

Sorry, I just don't think it will work that way.
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