Document Requirement or Not?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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terpe
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Document Requirement or Not?

Postby terpe » 13 May 2010, 23:03

Confused. I have just about all the documentation needed to request my appearance before the consulate for my citizenship. Now someone tells me that I need my Father's death certificate. He was born in the USA, his parents (my grandparents) were born in Italy (I have both of their death certificates). I am applying under Category #3. Am I misinterpreting something? Do I need his or not?

Thanks in advance. This forum has been so much help in getting this far.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 13 May 2010, 23:37

You need to produce each ancestor in your line, either in the flesh or in the form of a death certificate.

Okay, that's a bit exagerated, but yes, you do need your father's death certificate. Which consulate are you applying at? In what state did your father pass away?


PS: Looking at the NYC consulate site ( http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/NR/exe ... =Published ) as an example, the last line in each cateegory says, "ANY PERTINENT DEATH CERTIFICATE/S RELATED TO ITALIAN ASCENDENTS."

So there you go. Pertinent, in this case, means if the person is in your line and the person is deceased, then you need his/her death certificate.
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terpe
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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby terpe » 13 May 2010, 23:50

Thank you, JOTS. One translation I read was "Death certificates of Italian born Ascendants" and another "any pertinent death certificates related to Italian ascendants". Both are confusing to me as my Dad was an American. Anyway, I will proceed. I need to apply to the Chicago consulate. My Dad passed in Colorado.

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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 13 May 2010, 23:57

terpe wrote:Thank you, JOTS. One translation I read was "Death certificates of Italian born Ascendants" and another "any pertinent death certificates related to Italian ascendants". Both are confusing to me as my Dad was an American.


Actually, you need to change your mindset. The entire concept of jure sanguinis is that you are and always were an Italian citizen; you are simply providing the documentation required to convince the consulate of this fact.

Now, how is it that you "are and always were an Italian citizen"? Simple! It is because your father was and always was an Italian citizen!

And, what does that mean? That your father was one of those "Italian ascendants" you were reading about. :)


Thank God your father died in Colorado (I am sorry if that sounds disrespectful...). New York makes it incredibly difficult for anyone to obtain death certificates. Colorado seems to be a lot more reasonable on this issue. See http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/certs/birth.html
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terpe
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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby terpe » 14 May 2010, 00:40

I already have my Dad's death certificate. I just need to get it translated and get an Apostille. I am shocked that you can't get a death certificate in NY. Here I went to the public health department, filled out a short form, paid money and left within twenty minutes with a handful of them.

And yes, I get your mindset comment. I am and forever have been an Italian citizen, they just need to find out now. Thanks again.

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 14 May 2010, 13:27

johnnyonthespot wrote:
terpe wrote:Thank you, JOTS. One translation I read was "Death certificates of Italian born Ascendants" and another "any pertinent death certificates related to Italian ascendants". Both are confusing to me as my Dad was an American.


Actually, you need to change your mindset. The entire concept of jure sanguinis is that you are and always were an Italian citizen; you are simply providing the documentation required to convince the consulate of this fact.


That is so neat. I didnt realize it was retroactive !

Alicia

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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 14 May 2010, 13:39

DeFilippis78 wrote:
johnnyonthespot wrote:
terpe wrote:Thank you, JOTS. One translation I read was "Death certificates of Italian born Ascendants" and another "any pertinent death certificates related to Italian ascendants". Both are confusing to me as my Dad was an American.


Actually, you need to change your mindset. The entire concept of jure sanguinis is that you are and always were an Italian citizen; you are simply providing the documentation required to convince the consulate of this fact.


That is so neat. I didnt realize it was retroactive !

Alicia


Absolutely. That is why your children are eligible as well - because you were an Italian citizen at the time of their birth. Whether or not you were aware of the fact is a moot point.

This is the major difference between having your citizenship recognized jure sanguinis vs becoming a naturalized Italian citizen. In the one case, it is recognized that you always were an Italian; in the other, you become an Italian at the moment you naturalize. As a jure sanguinis citizen, my wife (married pre 4/27/1983) and adult son had their citizenship recognized the moment mine was. If I had become a naturalized citizen instead, my son would be left out in the cold and my wife would have to begin the long jure matrimoni process.
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DeFilippis78
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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 14 May 2010, 13:45

This is what Im trying to explain to my mother who decided not to do the process with me. My step father is from Genoa so she figures if she wants to be a citizen she'll do it through marriage. Its not the same at all and it cant be passed on to other generations.

Alicia

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mler
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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby mler » 14 May 2010, 15:14

But if your mother married your stepfather before 1983, and he was still Italian at that time, she also has another easy way to get her citizenship recognized without naturalizing.

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Re: Document Requirement or Not?

Postby DeFilippis78 » 14 May 2010, 15:22

Unfortunately they married only about 7 years ago. She just doesnt seem interested. Oh well, what can you do, lol!

Alicia


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