citizenship through indirect lineage

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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stefcambon
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citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby stefcambon » 28 Jun 2010, 18:56

In case this subject has not been covered previously, I thought it would be helpful to post some information which may be useful for many people of Italian descent, but whose efforts to get their citizenship have failed because their direct ancestor had to renounce their own Italian citizenship in order to become a US citizen.

This, I believe, is a common snag for American descendants of Italian immigrants, who until the early 1970's had to renounce their Italian citizenship upon taking U.S. citizenship. This automatically deprived all their future offspring from claiming any right to Italian citizenship as well. At the time, most immigrants did not hesitate to pursue American citizenship.

In my case, my brother had conducted research and found an important loophole for us. From 1948 until 1972, any non-Italian who married an Italian citizen automatically became Italian. In our case, our mother (a non-Italian) married my father (an Italian) in 1960. Unbeknownst to her, she was automatically made Italian from then on, unless she purposely renounced this (which she didn't). Then, my father took American citizenship in 1964 and renounced his Italian citizenship in the process. My brother and I were both born after this point, so we could not claim Italian citizenship ius sanguinis through him. However, since our mother was now technically Italian, we went through her as an ascendant. And this has worked for both of us.

This law has changed since then, however. Since 1972 or thereabouts, a non-Italian does not anymore become automatically Italian when marrying an Italian. But if you were born to someone who was themselves born an Italian citizen, and who married an American before assuming U.S. citizenship between 1948 and 1972, and that ascendant has not renounced any claim to Italian citizenship before you were born, then you are by right an Italian citizen.

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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby johnnyonthespot » 28 Jun 2010, 21:16

My only uncertainty is in regards to the 1972 date.

I can tell you for sure that a woman who married an "Italian" man (note: woman marrying man; not the other way around) up until April 27, 1983 automatically became an Italian citizen and that this citizenship persists even after the death of her husband or divorce (although there may have been a minimum length of marriage - not sure about that). In fact, after my own citizenship ius sanguinis was recognized in 2008, my wife immediately became a citizen as well (we wed in 1982).

I will have to look into that 1972 date...
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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby vivaldi » 30 Jul 2010, 11:48

mler / Johnny

Some more information please!

I'm in exactly the same position, except that I need to argue my (non-
Italian naturalisaed) father somehow became entitled to Italian citizenship when he married my Italian mother in Italy in 1950.

She was naturalised and lost her Italian citizenship before my birth (the siblings born before me are entitled as they were born to an Italian mother).

Where are there details of the law you refer to?

Thanks for your help!!!

V

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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2010, 12:08

At the moment, the one thing I can tell you for sure is that the 1983 rule applied only to a woman who marreied an Italian male and not the other way around.

The Miami consulate puts it this way:

I am a foreigner married to an Italian citizen. Am I entitled to Italian citizenship? If you are a woman and you married before April 26th, 1983, you automatically acquired Italian citizenship at the moment of marriage. After April 26th, 1983, either husband or wife may acquire Italian citizenship after two years of marriage if the couple resides in Italy and after three years if they reside abroad. In both cases you need tofile an application (see section B).

http://www.consmiami.esteri.it/Consolat ... tadinanza/


Which raises an interesting question... You don't say when your parents married, but let's assume that it was at least three years prior to your mother's naturalization. Can your father make a belated application for Italian citizenship based on his marriage to an (at the time) Italian woman?

It's an interesting concept...

However, had he done so, he most likely would have had to giive up his US citizenship.

Is your father still living?
Carmine

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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby vivaldi » 30 Jul 2010, 12:32

Johnny

Thanks for your prompt reply and apologies, I think I got stef's name wrong.

I'm writing from Australia.

My father and mother married in 1950, in Italy

He was naturalised as a minor in Australia when his father and siblings naturalised. That was 1939.

He is still alive but has not claimed citizenship.

If this rule operates that way I hope, he would have become an Italian citizen automatically on marrying my mother in 1950, he didn't do anything formal to claim that citizenship, and when I was born in the 1970s, he would be the ascedant Italian citizen through whom I would claim.

Most grateful for your assistance.

V

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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2010, 12:48

Okay then,

1) Your father did not automatically gain Italian citizenship when he married your mother because a) this is not a matter of Australian law but of Italian law and b) citizenship was automatically granted to women who married Italian men but not to men who married Italian women. Regardless, automatica citizenship through marriage ceased effective January 1, 1948.

2) More importantly -- was your father born Italian?? If so, he has a very simple means of regaining his Italian citizenship, should he want to. In short, he would file a declaration of intent to reacquire at his nearest consulate and then establish residency in Italy within one year of the declaration. Residency can be as simple as staying with a relative for several weeks. Once residency has been established, he goes to the comune's stato civile office and says, "Here I am, I want my citizenship restored, please."

2a) Again, if your father was born Italian, then you and your siblings have the option of expedited naturalization in which you reside legally in Italy for a period of three years and then claim citizenship on the basis of having an Italian ancestor up to the 2nd degree (in other words, father or grandfather). You can do this regardless of whether your father chooses to reacquire his own citizenship.

2b) If your father does reacquire, no, that will not affect you or your siblings, unless you are still minors and residing with your father.
Carmine

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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby vivaldi » 30 Jul 2010, 13:03

Johnny

I accept that Italian law not Australia law determines the issue.

But stef's experience as I read, it is different from your comment in paragraph 1.

Stef seems to be saying that when mother and father married in 1960 he passed citizenship to her. If so, that seems inconsistent with the thought that automatic citizenship through marriage ceased after 1/1/1948 (although that seems to be so after 1983 based on your citation from the Miami consulate).

In my case, my father married my mother in 1950, ie after 1948 as in Stef's case.

The problem is then, can women (after the 1948 consitutional changes) pass citizenship to men? Is there a clear statement that they do not.

In answer to your points:

2) yes my father was born Italian, in Italy and was naturalised Australian as a minor with his father in 1939. I agree he could regain Italian citizenship, but he is now too old to travel back to Italy (are there any dispensations?), so the residency requirement would be impossible

2a): yes I'm aware of a 3 year residency requirement for me, but it would be difficult to fulfil given my current employment and family circumstances

2b): no I'm an adult, not a minor

Thanks again!

V

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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2010, 13:47

In her post above, Stef said, "From 1948 until 1972, any non-Italian who married an Italian citizen automatically became Italian."

I have been hanging around this subject of Italian citizenship for at least five years and gained my own (and my wife's and son's) in 2008. I have never seen reference to the period between 1948 and 1972 which Stef speaks of.

Certainly, the consulates don't cover this at all, as in the quote from the Miami consulate above.

I googled the subject and the only thing I came up with is a document concerning dual citizenship for citizens of Malta, an island country which lies just off Sicily. This leads me to consider the possibility that there was an Italian law in place which pertained only to this small nation or to some other specific group of people. See http://www.foreign.gov.mt/Library/Citiz ... ooklet.pdf

This document ( http://eudo-citizenship.eu/docs/Country ... /Italy.pdf ) contains some tantalizing language concerning special agreements Italy entered into with various countries, but still absolutely nothing concerning the period of 1948 - 1972.

I am curious enough to continue researching this subject, however I must say that I cannot believe that such an important (nay, critical) facet has not shown itself before.
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Re: citizenship through indirect lineage

Postby vivaldi » 30 Jul 2010, 13:58

Carmine (Johnny)

Thanks for these links. I appreciate your experience and efforts

You're right: there are some tantallizing quotes that do indeed suggest husbands passed to wives but not vice versa before 1983 but that court decisions may have altered this.

I'll study carefully but will call it a day for now.

Best wishes from Down Under.

And hoping that Stef sees these messages and can help further!

Regards
V


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