Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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hollyolly7
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Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby hollyolly7 » 13 Jul 2010, 12:52

I've been going crazy trying to find my GGF naturalization record. 3 years have passed and no luck (I have also given up a handful of times though..lol).
Do I even need to show it if I am a resident in Italy??? It isn't even listed. This never crossed my mind until now!

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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 13 Jul 2010, 13:01

If you are applying jus sanguinis - based on blood right - then the basis of everything is proving that your Italian-ancestor (your GGF) was still Italian at the time that his son (?) was born. To do so, you either require proof that he naturalized after son's birth, or that he never naturalized at all.

Whether applying in the US, Italy, or Timbuktu, you are going to have to provide this proof.

Where does your research stand on this issue? Have you contacted USCIS and the National Archives yet?
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hollyolly7
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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby hollyolly7 » 13 Jul 2010, 13:18

I read that information on this forum. Someone wrote that naturalization papers aren't required if you have resided legally in Italy for three years. I closed the link now but someone had written it about 5 or 6 pages back.

NARA doesn't have anything, neither does the County records in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Those are the only places my GGF lived. I was about to send a letter to NARA asking for the "no records" letter but I may not even need it. Tomorrow I will go to the comune and ask them if it's necessary but if anyone else knows anything about this please share!

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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 13 Jul 2010, 14:06

If you have an Italian ancestor up to the 2nd degree (grandparent), then you can apply for naturalization after residing in Italy legally for just three years instead of the usual ten year requirement.

It does not seem that this would apply in your case, since you are reaching back to the 3rd degree, your great grandfather.

HOW TO APPLY
1. Declaration of desire to become a citizen; If the foreigner is of Italian descent (up to the 2nd degree) he/she can obtain citizenship in any of the following cases: - by serving in the Italian armed forces; - by becoming a subordinate employee of the Italian State, even abroad; - by residing legally in Italy for at least two years after reaching legal age. If the foreigner was born in Italian territory he/she can obtain citizenship by residing legally and uninterruptedly in Italy from birth up to legal age. 2. Marriage to an Italian citizen; The requirements include: legal residence in Italy for at least 6 months after marriage or 3 years of matrimony if residing abroad; valid marriage certificate; absence of criminal record; absence of impediments associated with national security. Applications for citizenship are to be addressed to the Ministry of the Interior and presented to the Prefecture in the Province of residence, if residing in Italy, or the diplomatic-consular authorities if residing abroad. 3. Naturalizzazione requirements include: 10 years of legal residence; sufficient income; absence of criminal record; renunciation of original citizenship (where foreseen). the number of years can be reduced to: 3 years of legal residence for descendents of former Italian citizens by birth, up to the 2nd degree, and for foreigners born in Italian national territory; 4 years of legal residence for citizens of European Community Member States; 5 years of legal residence for displaced persons or refugees, as well as for legal-age foreigners adopted by Italian citizens; 7 years of legal residence as the child of an Italian parent; no period of residence is required for foreigners who have served the State for a period of at least 5 years, even abroad. Application for naturalisation must be addressed to the President of the Republic (Presidente della Repubblica) and presented to the Prefecture in the Province of residence.

http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/Am ... tadinanza/
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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby kontessa » 13 Jul 2010, 19:25

hollyolly7 wrote:Tomorrow I will go to the comune and ask them if it's necessary but if anyone else knows anything about this please share!


If you are able to obtain an application for citizenship from the comune, there should be a list of required documentation. Proof that your ancestor never naturalized, or did so before the next person in your direct line was born is most definitely needed (and some comunes are even enforcing the 1912 rule). Inconsistencies do exist between comunes, but I do think that this information is a key part of your citizenship case. How much proof is up to the comune to decide. (Unless you're naturalizing as a citizen, then forget everything I wrote!)

You should request a search from USCIS first. If they have no record, then you must obtain a certified no record letter that then will need an apostille (federal). NARA doesn't have records for some individuals that naturalized, so sometimes their search comes back negative, and then a record is found by USCIS. I would think that the USCIS no record letter would be sufficient, but it depends upon the comune - some may refer back to the consulates in the states for clarification, and if the consulate recommends additional proof you are left trying to gather more documents after you submit everything. Unless the comune informs you otherwise, best to get more and require less especially if you aren't physically in the US.

Everything that you present to the comune requires an apostille. No record letters issued by USCIS and NARA, any naturalization documents if USCIS does find them for your ancestor, etc..

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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby hollyolly7 » 21 Jul 2010, 10:49

I was finally able to go to the stato civile office today and they told me that there are many laws (what a shocker) on citizenship ius sanguinis and that the one that concerns most descendents is "k28 la circolare." Here is the link if anyone is interested:

http://www.aineei.org/leyes/circolare%2 ... 201991.htm

Here is an part of what it says:

OGGETTO: Riconoscimento del possesso dello status civitatis italiano ai cittadini stranieri di ceppo italiano.

Si è avuto modo di rilevare come pervengano sempre più numerose richieste di chiarimenti circa le modalità che debbono essere adottate al fine di definire la situazione di cittadinanza di persone provenienti da Paesi esteri (in particolare modo dall’Argentina ma anche dal Brasile o dagli Stati Uniti) e munite di passaporto straniero, le quali rivendicano la titolarità dello status civitatis italiano.

Com’è noto, infatti, in virtù della contemporanea operatività del combinato disposto dagli artt. 1 e 7 della Legge 13 giugno 1912, n. 555 e delle disposizioni vigenti in materia di cittadinanza di numerosi Paesi esteri d’antica emigrazione italiana (ad es. tutti gli Stati del continente americano, l’Australia, ecc.) attributivi “iure soliâ€

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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 21 Jul 2010, 11:30

Just to clarify:

>> after 1948

This refers to the fact that prior to January 1, 1948, Italian citizenship was passed only by Italian men. On or after that date, the child could inherit citizenship from either the mother or the father.

So, without studying the Italian text, I would change this paragraph as follows:

Loose translation: anyone with italian ancestors that passed their citizenship on to their children because they still hadn't become citizens of another county, passed it also to their grandchildren as long as they were born on or after January 1, 1948 if the Italian ancestor is female or any date if the Italian ancestor is male, and their great grandchildren etc.


Importantly, this addresses the original question even if it is not obvious.

>> Loose translation: anyone with italian ancestors ...

Means you will have to prove that your ancestor (your GGF) was Italian. To do so, you need proof that he was born Italian (his Italian birth certificate usually) and that he lost his Italian citizenship (naturalized in another country) after the birth of his son or that he never naturalized at all. No one is going to take this for granted as it is the crux and root of the entire jus sanguinis concept.
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Re: Naturalization record needed if applying in ITALY?

Postby kontessa » 21 Jul 2010, 11:46

Holly, here is the part that you should be interested in since it lays out what you need to submit: (are you able to read Italian?)

B) Procedura per il riconoscimento della cittadinanza italiana.



Le istanze di riconoscimento della cittadinanza italiana ex art. 1 della Legge 13 giugno 1912, n. 555 dovranno essere indirizzate al Sindaco del Comune italiano di residenza, ovvero al Console italiano nell’ambito della cui circoscrizione consolare risieda l’istante straniero originario italiano.



Le stesse dovranno essere corredate della seguente documentazione:



1) estratto dell’atto di nascita dell’avo italiano emigrato all’estero rilasciato dal Comune italiano ove egli nacque;

2) atti di nascita, muniti di traduzione ufficiale italiana, di tutti i suoi discendenti in linea retta, compreso quello della persona rivendicante il possesso della cittadinanza italiana;

3) atto di matrimonio dell’avo italiano emigrato all’estero, munito di traduzione ufficiale italiana se formato all’estero;

4) atti di matrimonio dei suoi discendenti, in linea retta, compreso quello dei genitori della persona rivendicante il possesso della cittadinanza italiana;

5) certificato rilasciato dalle competenti Autorità dello Stato estero di emigrazione, munito di traduzione ufficiale in lingua italiana, attestante che l’avo italiano a suo tempo emigrato dall’Italia non acquistò la cittadinanza dello Stato estero di emigrazione anteriormente alla nascita dell’ascendente dell’interessato;

6) certificato rilasciato dalla competente Autorità consolare italiana attestante che né gli ascendenti in linea retta né la persona rivendicante il possesso della cittadinanza italiana vi abbiano mai rinunciato ai termini dell’art. 7 della legge 13 giugno 1912, n. 555;

7) certificato di residenza.

Number 5 refers to the evidence of naturalization for the Italian ancestor who immigrated from Italy.


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