emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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doncariddi
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emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 19 Jul 2010, 14:26

I have read that the Italian Goverment in the past (not sure exactly when) allowed Italian emigrants to regain their Italian citizenship. I believe it was for a very limited time (perhaps 2 moths). I've read in a passport book that in 2009 there was some 'talk' of this happening again and it may happen with no time limit. So that it may be possible if it ever were to happen, that my Grandfather could go to the Italian Consulate in NY and regain his Italian citizenship.

First, has anyone heard of this from the past or current talks? Second, if this did happen (and I realize it is a big IF), would that give me any chance at a dual citizenship? I am his grandson. I do not qualify under existing law as my father was born after my grandfather was naturilized.

I know since my Grandfather was born in Italy in 1920, the best chance at this point to gain any Italian citizenship is by living in Italy for 3 years and then I could apply (less than for a non-ancestor). But other than that I do not qualify. I was reaching for straws on the above idea that I 'might' be able to gain it if my grandfather ever regained his but that is with A LOT of assumptions I know.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 19 Jul 2010, 14:41

When Italian law changed in 1992 allowing dual citizenship, a small window was opened allowing Italians who had previously lost their citizenship through naturalization to easily reclaim it. This window was expanded a couple of times, ultimately lasting a total of some 5 years into 1997.

In my opinion, it is unlikely to be re-opened.

More importantly, it applied only to that person who actually lost his citizenship (my grandfather, for example) and that person had to be alive and able to assert his own claim (my grandfather died in 1945, thus out of the question).

If the window were re-opened as you suggest, it would almost certainly have to happen while your grandfather is still living. If that actually did happen, then yes, I suppose you would become eligible for citizenship jus sanguinis.

What blood do you have on your mother's side? Any recent Irish, perchance?
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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 19 Jul 2010, 15:06

As follow-up, I know this is possible IF my Grandfather wanted to move back to Italy, however, my understanding was this was done where one did not have to move back, but of course had the option.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 19 Jul 2010, 16:03

doncariddi wrote:As follow-up, I know this is possible IF my Grandfather wanted to move back to Italy, however, my understanding was this was done where one did not have to move back, but of course had the option.


Actually, your grandfather does not have to move to Italy... well, not exactly.

He has the option of making a declaration at his nearest consulate of his intent to establish residency in Italy and reclaim his citizenship.. He then has one year in which to do just that; if he has relatives in Italy who would enjoy his company for perhaps up to a few months (possibly much less depending on the comune) - all he needs to do is show up in Italy, request residenza using his relative's address, wait for the vigili to ascertain that he is really there, and then make his claim at the municipal office. I have heard of the entire process being completed in just a few weeks.

However, how that would impact you and other descendants is not so clear; you might want to make further inquiries along this line if this seems like a practical option for your 90 year-old (?) grandfather.

Honestly, if I recall correctly, this would not result in citizenship for any descendants other than minor children (presumably there are none) who reside with him...
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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 25 Jul 2010, 12:11

Thanks Carmine, I don't believe even if he did obtain, as you say, it gives me any chance of citizenship.

I was looking down my grandmother's blood line as well, the problem with her is that my father was born in 1947 and it appears according to the law, he would have to have been born after 1/1/48...Do you or anyone know the relevance of that random date?

The only other avenue I see, is if I were to want to go to Italy at some point down the road, second home, retire...That I believe I would qualify in 3 years based on my ethnicity through my Grandfather.

Do you or anyone know the criteria for that? It is certainly not in my immediate future, but I wonder the process, what i have to prove, documents, etc. I recall seeing that I had to of course have a visa to stay in Italy and prove I have money to live/retire etc, but other than that, I was not able to see specifics on actually eventually gaining Italian citizenship. For example, if I qualify in 3 years, does that mean I would start the paperwork before and in 3 years it can be submitted, or would I have to wait 3 years to submit and then it would take much longer to then get approved.

I did not see too much information on this site, if there is a link I can go to, it is appreciated.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 25 Jul 2010, 12:20

Carmine - also no I do not have any Irish in my family...as I do know their dual citizenship process is very easy so long as one has a grandparent born in Ireland.

Having spent time in Italy and wanting to reconnect with my Italian heritage and my hope to eventually buy a place and I think retire there...it was a bit disappointing as I say, that the laws for Italy are so specific regarding dates and such. I understand them wanting to 'control' their immigration which is refreshing for a country (since the US does such a poor job), however, my grandfather having been born in Italy and naturalized through his father who took the time to do it properly while I have a friend who DOES qualify as his great grandfather was born in Italy, came to the US, out of laziness did not get naturalized for some time, his grandfather was then born which then continued the Italian Bloodline, then his father and then my friend. It is somewhat amusing that that instance qualifies, yet my grandfather does not simply based on a naturalization date. Oh well, cannot turn back time!

I assume there are no other avenues to follow other than being eligible if I live there 3 years.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 25 Jul 2010, 12:35

Don,

January 1, 1948 was the effective date of Italy's post-war democratic constitution. It is the first time women were given essentially equal rights as men, including the right to pass citizenship directly to their children. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Italy

Just about anyone can become a naturalized Italian citizen by residing legally in Italy for a period of ten years. As a person with an Italian ancestor "up to the 2nd degree" (in other words, a grandparent), you would qualify for a shortened residency requirement of just three years. The residing legally part can be difficult as it means obtaining a work visa (virtually impossible), an extended student visa (under which you must attend full-time university level school and are allowed to work up to 20 hours per week), or an elective residency visa under which you must prove substantial monetary assets and will not be allowed to work at all.

Let me know if I didn't answer all of your questions.
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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 25 Jul 2010, 14:28

Thank you carmine, very helpful. I guess my only option is at some point the elective residency visa under which I must prove substantial monetary assets.

I guess I will continue to travel to Italy and meet my relatives who still reside there and hopefully making connections will at least bring me back to my 'roots'. Thanks for all of your information.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 27 Jul 2010, 16:43

Carmine - question that I'm not sure that you answered. It is somewhat confusing looking at the maternal bloodline. I see the following on the NY Consulate site:

Category 4) your mother was born in the United States or a Country other than Italy, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your mother’s birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship;
Category 5) your paternal or maternal grandparents were born in the United States from Italian parents and they never renounced their right to Italian citizenship. (Please note: the Italian mother can transfer her Italian citizenship only to children born after 01/01/1948).

Would my father, if he was born after 1/1/1948 qualify under either of those two categories above, provided HIS mother was born from Italian parents (his grandparents) who did not naturalize? The maternal bloodline seems confusing as upon marriage to a US citizen do they not loose theier Italian citizneship?

T

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 27 Jul 2010, 16:57

If I understand correctly:

Father born on or after January 1, 1948 ...

His mother born in the US to Italian parents ...

Her parents born in Italy.

Presuming that her parents were Italian citizens at the time of her birth, your father's mother would have inherited the right to Italian citizenship and she would have passed this on to any of [/b]her[/b] children born on or after 1/1/1948. The question of interest is not when was the woman born, but when was her child born.
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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby jennabet » 28 Jul 2010, 16:42

If your grand-father missed the five-year window of opportunity to regain his Italian citizenship, he can live in Italy for ONE year (not three) and get it back. But this will not help any of his descendents who were born after he initially lost his Italian citizenship because Italian citizenship never passed to them.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 28 Jul 2010, 17:30

Carmine - I know I'm at a dead end...however, my grandfather has a 'certificate of citizenship', which from the date he became a citizen, I believe is base don my GGF's naturalization. I assume there is no differenece between a 'certificate of naturalization' and a 'certifcate of citizenship'.

My GF never took a naturalization oath, in fact his 'certificate of citizenship' was not even obtained until 1948 or so, whereas, it states he became a citizen back in 1927 (the date of my GGF's naturlization. I imagine it is not so much that my grandfather never took an oath renouncing citizenship so much as my GGF became naturalized and passed that on to him since he was only 7 years old?

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby jennabet » 28 Jul 2010, 17:49

Just want to mention here that the elective residency visa is a good way to go for retirees. You should not be put off by the "substantial monetary requirement" because the average salary of an Italian worker is $22,000. Many baby-boomers who were consistently employed can probably meet this with social security benefits alone. Of course, this would be "per person" and not for a couple.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby jennabet » 28 Jul 2010, 17:50

.....I imagine it is not so much that my grandfather never took an oath renouncing citizenship so much as my GGF became naturalized and passed that on to him since he was only 7 years old?.....

Correct. The actions of the parents affect the minor children.

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Re: emigrants regaining Italian Citizenship?

Postby doncariddi » 29 Jul 2010, 13:19

Thanks,

Is there any effect if my grandfather was still living in Italy up through the age of 7 and then came to America with his mom? You see my GGF came to the US alone while my GF and his mother were back in Italy. My GGF filed to be naturalized and of course was in 1927...then a few months later my GF and his mom came over seperately. So in reality he was still living in Italy when his father (my ggf) was naturalized).

I know I'm grasping at straws!

As you say, worst case is a visa for 3 years, but of course that would be near my retirment age, I was hoping for reconnect of my Italian heritage sooner. Of course in reality I will not be staying in Italy longer than 2-4 weeks a year until I retire.


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