ATTN: Do I qualify???

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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goingtorome
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ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby goingtorome » 29 Jul 2010, 23:52

I have just learned the following:

My GGGF was an Italian citizen who came to America in 1905, and according to the record, my GGF (his son) was born in Illinois in 1909. I just got results back from the USCIS about my GGGF and learned that he "registered as an alien" in 1940 in San Bernadino, CA.

I also had a search done for my GGGM and found a record (haven't received it yet). The letter I initally received says: FCO: UNKNOWN...what does that mean?

I know that my GGGM was born in Italy in 1891 and came to America with her husband. I have found a social security number for her in the USA and her death certificate. (Her wedding certificate I located from Italy).

Can anyone tell me if I qualify for italian citizenship? I am not sure what the difference is between "registered as an alien" and "naturalized".

Also, what if I cannot find my GGGF's birth certificate from Italy...what should I do?

And what if I cannot find my GGF's birth certificate from Illinois? Is the baptismal certificate good enough (from Italy)?


Thanks!

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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jul 2010, 12:31

According to this document https://www.ilw.com/immigrationdaily/Ne ... abbrev.pdf

FCO -- Files Control Office


I can jump to conclusions about the meaning of this, but...

The fact that your GGGF was a registered alien in 1940 seems to clinch the deal for you, in my opinion. Of course, it is the consulate's opinion which matters, so I would put the question to them: Are the 1940 Alien Registration records sufficient to show that my GGGF did not naturalize prior to the birth of my GGF in 1909?

"Registered As An Alien" means that in 1940 he was still a citizen of a country other than the United States. As such, he was required to register his presence, just as legal immigrants are required to do to this day.

If you would care to share your GGGF's name, date or year of birth, spouse's name and children's names - we may be able to help you locate additional supporting records.

In any event, from what you have stated thus far, it does appear that you would qualify for jus sanguinis citizenship. I presume you are planning on yourself -> father -> GF -> GGF -> GGGF? If there are any women in your propsed direct lineage, it is essential that her child was born on or after January 1, 1948; prior to that date Italian citizenship was passed only by the father.

Very old birth certificates can be difficult to find; some states did not even require them as recently as the early 1900's. Only your consulate knows if they will accept a church record.

However, your GGGF's Ialian birth record will be absolutely essential and the only way to obtain that is to first figure out exactly where he was born. With luck, his Alien Registration application will have that information.
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby goingtorome » 31 Jul 2010, 09:56

Thanks for your reply.

The relationship is like this: Me > mother > GF > GGF > GGGF.

I do know that he was born in Prascorsano, Italy (after asking someone there who did a search he did not come up with his birth certificate...only his marriage certificate and his son's baptismal certificate).

My GGGF, Vincenzo (or Vincent) Perona was
Born: August 13, 1885 - Prascorsano, Piedmont, Italy
Death: December 7, 1950 (65) - San Bernardino, CA, USA

He was married to Catterina Perona:
Born: November 29, 1891 - Levone, Piedmont, Italy

The USCIS search did not come up with naturalization records for Vincent Perona, so this would mean I just need a "NO RECORDS FOUND" certificate from them? He has no voting records or anything that would hint he naturalized.

I have not received results yet about my GGF's birth documents from USCIS but hopefully soon.

I should be receiving the marriage certificate from Italy soon, and I am wondering if this has Vincentzo's birth location? If yes, and I cannot find the birth certificate, would this be enough to prove he was born in Italy?

Thanks again!

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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 10:45

Yes, marriage certificate should show the bride and groom's places of birth.

If the marriage certificate shows that your GGGF was born in the same comune he married in, the stato civile officer should be willing to work with you to find the actual birth record.

Possible passenger manifest for Vincenzo Perona. He is on line 26 and reported as being single.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Vincenzo Perona
Name: Vincenzo Perona
Arrival Date: 29 Sep 1905
Birth Year: abt 1885
Age: 20 Years 1 Months
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: German (mis-transcribed)
Port of Departure: Genova
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Liguria


http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz12 ... Perona.jpg

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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 11:05

The way I interpret this next manifest is that Vincenzo returned to Italy , married, had a child, and then he and his new family came to the US in 1913.

What was your GGF's name? This child, 4 years old in Dec 1913 (thus born in 1909), was named Antonio - apparently after Vincenzo's father who was also named Antonio.

If this is the correct family and Antonio is your GGF, then he was born in Italy, not Illinois (thus explaining why you have not been able to find his "Illinois" birth certificate :) ).

Lines 4, 5, and 6 on the manifest below.

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Vincenzo Perona
Name: Vincenzo Perona
Arrival Date: 27 Dec 1913
Birth Year: abt 1885
Birth Location: Italy
Birth Location Other: prascorsano
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (North) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Le Havre
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: La Savoie

Manifest, page 1: http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz12 ... family.jpg

Manifest, page 2: http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz12 ... ypage2.jpg

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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 11:19

By the way, did you relaize that there are seven Perona's listed in the current Italian telephone directory for Prascorsano? In such a small comune (~800 persons), there is a reasonable chance that these people are your relatives.

http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... rsano&l=en
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 11:44

I am going to take a leap of faith and presume that the manifests above pertain to your ancestors and that Antonio is indeed your GGF.

This makes your life both easier and more difficult.

Easier because you have one less generation to reach back to; you no longer need your GGGParent's birth or marriage records from Prascorsano, only your GGF's birth certificate (he was born in Prascorsano as well).

However, the naturalization issue now gets more complex. You will now have to prove the naturalization or non-naturalization of not one but two different people - your GGGF and your GGF, based on these two scenarios:

1) If your GGGF had naturalized while your GGF was still a minor child, then GGF would have automatically naturalized along with him. You will need to prove this did not happen; I think GGGF's 1940 Alien Registration covers this base.

2) You also need to prove that GGF did not naturalize on his own (non-naturalization) or that if he did naturalize, he did so before the birth of your GF.

It is a good sign, although not absolute, that there are no notations on the 1913 manifest of the type we would expect to see if either Vincenzo or Antonio had filed a Declaration of Intent...
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 13:08

Is this your Caterina?

Name: CATERINA PERONA
Born: 30 Apr 1883
Died: Jun 1974 age 91
Last residence: Oakland, Alameda, CA
Social Security card issued: California
Social Security # 568-30-1037

If this is your GGGM, you can request a copy of her original social security application which will show her place of birth, father's name, and mother's maiden name as she entered them when she completed the form.

See https://secure.ssa.gov/apps9/eFOIA-FEWe ... t/main.jsp

also http://genealogy.about.com/od/online_re ... equest.htm
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby goingtorome » 31 Jul 2010, 16:29

Thanks so much for all this help!!

Okay, yes the manifests you saw are correct. The thing that really boggles my mind is my GGF's birthplace. According to the manifests, the first time my GGGM came to America was in 1913 (so, my GGF could only have come as a italian-born citizen if this is correct).

But, not only can I not find his birth certificate in Illinois (on my own by calling the local offices and having them do a search) but I cannot find it from Italy either.

His baptismal certificate states he was born in Illinois, and the manifest also says that his parents (in 1913) said he was born in Illinois.

As for Prascorsano, yes, I do have a few relatives there (haven't met them). It is a nice, small village in the mountains.

Do you have any suggestions on how to find my GGF's birth certificate if it is in Italy? Any good sources to ask?

Thanks!

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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 16:43

Shame on me for not looking at the manifest more carefully.

In column 17 (page 2) of the 1913 manifest, it says that Vincenzo was in the US - "Panama" between 1908 and 1909. Two lines down, it says that Antonio was "USA Born" and, in the last column of the same sheet, it says that Antonio was born in USA - Panama!

I presume this is referring to the Panama Canal Zone of which, "In November 1903, Panama proclaimed its independence and concluded the Hay/Bunau-Varilla Treaty with the United States. The treaty granted rights to the United States "as if it were sovereign" in a zone roughly 10 miles wide and 50 miles long. In that zone, the U.S. would build a canal, then administer, fortify, and defend it "in perpetuity." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama )

Perhaps Vincenzo helped build the Panama Canal!

I will have to do some research to find out where Antonio's birth record might be located. As you may know, the US gave up all rights to the canal zone in some years ago.
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 16:44

See this concerning Panama Canal Zone vital records: http://genealogy.about.com/library/vita ... alzone.htm
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby johnnyonthespot » 31 Jul 2010, 17:06

On the other hand, there does exist a very small village in Illinois named Panama... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama,_Illinois

So, maybe he was born in Panama, IL and not in the Panama Canal Zone.

Hmmm...

From http://www.idph.state.il.us/vitalrecord ... alinfo.htm

A number of resources are available for individuals doing genealogical research using vital records filed in the state of Illinois. Births and deaths before January 1, 1916 and marriages before January 1, 1962 are recorded only in the office of the county clerk where the event occurred.


Since Panama is split between Montgomery and Bond Counties, you may want to try contacting them both:

Bond
Bond County Clerk
203 W. College
203 County Office Building
Greenville, IL 62246
618-664-0449


Montgomery
Montgomery County Clerk
Courthouse
#1 Courthouse Square
P.O. Box 595
Hillsboro, IL 62049
217-532-9530
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Re: ATTN: Do I qualify???

Postby goingtorome » 01 Aug 2010, 17:15

I would be very surprised if he was born in Panama =)

All the sources I know (relatives, his baptismal certificate) state that he was born in Panama, Illinois.

I contacted both the offices of Bond/Montomery counties and they did a search of their own, but came up with no results.

I am hoping to hear back from USCIS soon, and maybe they have found more info...

If he was truly born in Panama, Illinois, how come they don't find his birth certificate?? That's what I don't get!

Thanks again for your help!!!!!!


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