What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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LoveJesus22
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What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 02 Aug 2010, 02:25

I want to Reacquire my Italian Citizenship do i use category 3 or article 13 wats the difference ?


1-Category 3) your father was born in the United States or a Country other than Italy, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your father’s birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to the Italian citizenship


2-Article 13
A person who has lost Italian citizenship shall reacquire it
c)if he or she declares the wish to reacquire citizenship and has established or establishes residence in the territory of the Republic within one year of such declaration;


My Old subject here
http://www.italgen.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=17622.html

Thanx :)

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby mler » 02 Aug 2010, 02:44

I'm sorry, but you have misstated your situation. You can only reacquire Italian citizenship through Article 13 if you were an Italian citizen at birth and lost that citizenship to naturalization.

If I understand your situation correctly, the consulate is saying that according to Egyptian law at that time, your grandmother lost her Italian citizenship when she married her Egyptian husband. If that is the case, you would need to reside in Italy for three years in order to obtain Italian citizenship.

However, this seems a most unusual interpretation because if that were the case, your father would never have been an Italian citizen. You may want to try applying in Italy.

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 02 Aug 2010, 02:52

Thanx Mler for your answer..
but if i was italian at birth But my parents didn't make me the italian passport i mean that i wasn't italian officialy but supposed to be italian but not officialy... so now that i can go to the category 3 ??..

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby mler » 02 Aug 2010, 02:59

I'm sorry, but I don't think I totally understand what you are saying.

If your grandmother was still Italian, when your father was born, he was born with Italian citizenship. He could not lose this through his mother's naturalization since he was Egyptian by birth. This would mean that Italian citizenship was passed on to you--and, no, you don't need a passport to prove this.

What you do need is your grandmother's birth certificate, her naturalization papers, her marriage certificate and her death certificate.

You need your father's birth certificate and his marriage certificate. And, of course you need your own documents.

These should be sufficient. If the consulate gives you a hard time, you may consider applying in Italy.

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 02 Aug 2010, 03:06

yea Mler My grandmother was still italian when my father was born..she lost it when he was 2 years old..nd he was egyptian by birth as u said .so are you sure he didn't lose it ? coz in the consulate they told him he lost the italian citizenship coz he was minor at the time his mother lost it..wat u think ?

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 02 Aug 2010, 03:07

or may be he misunderstood sth or i misunderstood it..but nw i'm 21 n few months am major..that makes problems or i can apply it without problems..?
thanx 4 ur helps..

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Aug 2010, 12:14

mler wrote:If your grandmother was still Italian, when your father was born, he was born with Italian citizenship. He could not lose this through his mother's naturalization since he was Egyptian by birth.


We have to be careful about interpreting events in Egypt under Egyptian law as though they occured in the US under US law as we know it.

In the other thread, "..They told my dad that that he can't apply for italian citizenship (i mean can't be italian at the time he went n acquired it) coz he was minor when his mother lost it..so if my dad want to reacquire it he must reside there for 1 year.."

This may be an indication of a major difference between US and Egyptian law. If I recall correctly, the concept that a person who was born American cannot also become a naturalized American is the result of a court ruling which has since become the law of the land - the US land.

Since Italian citizenship jus sanguinis has been in place for 18 years now (since 1992) and in full swing for at least ten years, I suspect that most consulates and embassies have a good grasp of the local quirks by now.
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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby mler » 02 Aug 2010, 12:41

It seems that Egypt does not recognize dual citizenship. This outright non-acceptance likely affects the consulate's interpretation.

In the OP's case, he was apparently born with Egyptian citizenship from his father and Italian citizenship through his mother. If the consulate takes the position that the Italian citizenship prevailed, it then also assumes that the child naturalized with the mother.

If, however, the interpretation is that the child took his father's Egyptian citizenship, which by Egyptian law he did, then the child was a citizen of Italy only in the eyes of Italy.

It is an interesting case, and you're right Carmine, the consulate in Egypt has apparently chosen the former interpretation. However, since this is a rather unusual case, the OP might well be advised to apply for dual citizenship in Italy where the fact of birth in Egypt to an Egyptian father and an Italian mother may well be interpreted as his possessing dual citizenship.

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Aug 2010, 13:04

mler wrote:... However, since this is a rather unusual case, the OP might well be advised to apply for dual citizenship in Italy where the fact of birth in Egypt to an Egyptian father and an Italian mother may well be interpreted as his possessing dual citizenship.


An excellent point. This might very well be the OP's best option.
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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 02 Aug 2010, 13:38

What's The OP ? when u said the OP is the best option ??
By the way Egypt recognized the dual citizenship at that time.

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby mler » 02 Aug 2010, 13:48

If Egypt recognized dual citizenship at that time, you should be able to apply jure sanguinis without a problem, and the consulate has made an error if they told you it was not possible. OP means Original Poster--in this case, you.

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Aug 2010, 13:49

LoveJesus22 wrote:What's The OP ? when u said the OP is the best option ??


"OP" = "Original Poster" - the person who started the thread; in this case, you. :)
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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 03 Aug 2010, 03:58

..Thanx Guyz For your Helps..
But there's any official website that says that minor don't lose italian citizenship if they didn't naturalize from their italian parental ?? i mean other thing than Category 3 ?
or Just the papers of my grandparents can prove it ?

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby LoveJesus22 » 03 Aug 2010, 06:15

Sry :)..i have another question also:

Category 3) your father was born in the United States or a Country other than Italy, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your father’s birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to the Italian citizenship;

is grandfather like grandmother ??

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Re: What's The Difference ?? Wat should i use ?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 03 Aug 2010, 10:40

LoveJesus22 wrote:is grandfather like grandmother ??


Yes, so long as your father was born on or after January 1, 1948.

We have strong agreement that we believe the consulate may be making a mistake when it insists your father lost his Italian citizenship. The problem is, what can you do about it?

You can hire an attorney who is familiar with Italian and Egyptian citizenship law to do the research for you and prepare a statement for the consulate which supports your case...

Or, you can apply directly in Italy in hopes that the official will not take the view that your father lost his citizenship...

Or, you can establish residency in the jurisdiction of another Italian embassy / consulate and then apply there...

You haven't said which consulate you have been in contact with. If it is a small outlying consulate, maybe you should try contacting the Italian embassy in Cairo.
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