Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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didozo
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Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 16 Aug 2010, 16:34

Hello
My husband's Greatgrandfather's name was originally Allenza (have paperwork from Italy and Ellis Island) and on birth cft of son, but the name was changed to Lenzo somewhere between 1906 and 1910 census. He naturalized in 1906 with the Allenza name. We can't find any information regarding the mother/wife which could possibly allow my husband to get citizenship. We only have her Name on a birth certificate of GF.
THe fact that the last name is so different now leds me to think that it might be a mute point in trying to go any further. If we can prove that the mother/wife died in Italy and get a marriage certificate - would that help at all? Does having a copyof the census with the name change on it help?

It is such a mess.

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 16 Aug 2010, 17:27

Great-grandmother wouldn't matter since she could not pass citizenship to children born prior to January 1, 1948.

I don't think your case is entirely dead in the water, but you will need to find a way to document the Allenza/Lenzo connection to the consulate's satisfaction.

If I understand correctly, you have grandfather's birth certificate which shows the Lenzo name? Did grandfather have any older siblings? Can you get their birth certificates? If some of those siblings were Allenza and all other details on their birth certificates match up, you might be able to use that fact in your favor.

Certified copies of at least two censuses may help sway your case but you would have to show two censuses which are essentially the same details (address, given names, birth years, and so on) with the only difference being the spelling of the surname.

Which consulate would you apply through? Each consulate has its own way of dealing with these situations.
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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 17 Aug 2010, 01:36

Hi
The Grandfather birth cft has the Allenza name, the ship manifest has him as Allenza, the Naturalization of the GGF has the Allenza name, but the marriage cft of the grandfather has Lanzo , the 1910 census has Lenz and has him listed as a boarder because he lived with his father and new wife. The 1930 census has Grandfather as Lenzo. Correspondence to the Bureau of Census is signed by the Grandfather as Allenza stating that his father was an Allenza.(approx 1943,1944) but he was known as Lenzo at that time on other papers.

I don't know which consulate - PA or NY. The Greatgrandfather naturalized in PA but Grandfather lived in PA and NY.
Searching: Allenza -Villalba/Valledolmo, Marsala -Villalba, Trapani-Mistretta, and Mirra/Filippelli- Domanico, Benevento

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Aug 2010, 12:41

The question of which consulate you would apply at is determined by your place of legal residence.

The complete list of Consulates of Italy in the US is here http://www.ambwashingtondc.esteri.it/Am ... consolare/

You can apply only at the "full" consulate which has jurisdiction over your place of residence. You cannot apply at Vice or Honorary Consulates.
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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby mler » 17 Aug 2010, 12:42

Your husband would apply at the consulate in which he holds residence; the home of his ancestors does not affect this.

Based on the information you provide, it seems that the letter to the Bureau of the Census may help to esbablish the connection between the two names. Under what name was the death certificate issued? What name is listed on his son's birth certificate?

I should mention that in the past several consulates have taken issue with naturalization before 1912. I'm not sure if this is still a problem.

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Aug 2010, 12:51

mler wrote:I should mention that in the past several consulates have taken issue with naturalization before 1912. I'm not sure if this is still a problem.


Have seen very recent reports from both New York and San Francisco; apparently the only two US consulates which interpret the law in this manner (to wit: all minor children naturalize automatically with their father, regardless of where they were born, if the father naturalized before June 14/July 1, 1912 - http://www.conssanfrancisco.esteri.it/N ... ZIONI1.doc)
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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 17 Aug 2010, 14:01

The death certificate is Lenzo and the son's birth certificate is Lenzo.

Since both sets of my husband's are from Italian - can I search through the maternal side? I don't believe there is such a mess up with the name.
Searching: Allenza -Villalba/Valledolmo, Marsala -Villalba, Trapani-Mistretta, and Mirra/Filippelli- Domanico, Benevento

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby mler » 17 Aug 2010, 17:07

You certainly can do that, but you need to be sure that the dates work out. A woman could not pass citizenship before 1948.

Thus if your husband's maternal ggf was Italian and passed citizenship down to his son who passed it to your mother-in-law, the odds are good. If his ggf passed citizenship to a daughter, your mother-in-law must have been born after 1948 for the citizenship line to remain intact. (I'm assuming, of course, that your husband was born after 1948.)

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 17 Aug 2010, 19:44

Okay = well there goes that because MIL was born 1932. Husband born 1961.
Well we'll stop working the citizenship and keep working on the name issue.

Why are there questions about naturalization before 1912?

Do you think the issue with all these last names was because early immigrants wanted to assimilate right away in the USA? I would have expected the first name to change to John, which it did. I just didn't expect so many last names.
Searching: Allenza -Villalba/Valledolmo, Marsala -Villalba, Trapani-Mistretta, and Mirra/Filippelli- Domanico, Benevento

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 17 Aug 2010, 19:50

Hello Again -
I just read someone's post who was able to amend their GF and GGF's death certificates. If I can prove the name was really Allenza by the paperwork that I have and can find the funeral director - can I really do that - could I fix this? SHOULD I fix this?
Searching: Allenza -Villalba/Valledolmo, Marsala -Villalba, Trapani-Mistretta, and Mirra/Filippelli- Domanico, Benevento

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby mler » 17 Aug 2010, 20:22

You should amend whatever is possible to amend because the consulates can often be really picky.

Back to your MIL. It's ok if she was born before 1948 IF she obtained citizenship from her dad. It's only if she is using her mom's line that this is a problem.

Some consulates have taken the position that the citizenship law enacted in 1912 specifically protected children who obtained a foreign citizenship by birth from losing citizenship when their father naturalized. They argue that before that time, when a man naturalized, he renounced for the entire family. As Carmine noted, however, this is not a universal interpretation. Where will you be applying?

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 17 Aug 2010, 20:44

I'd be applying in New York.

Okay - I've got to check with the great uncle who has all of that information on that side of the family. This site is so great! I really appreciate all the help.
Searching: Allenza -Villalba/Valledolmo, Marsala -Villalba, Trapani-Mistretta, and Mirra/Filippelli- Domanico, Benevento

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby mler » 17 Aug 2010, 20:51

New York can be very difficult. See what you can find out about your MIL's line. I think you'll find it easier.

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby didozo » 17 Aug 2010, 21:00

Another issue - the GGF remarried and all the children retained the newer name so if I amend the GF's death cft, and could possibly amend the GGF, this opens up a whole can of worms for the whole family as to the "correct" family name. We're talking 2 generations. Do you then have to amend birth cfts too?

Boy, I'm only a married in trying to find a family tree.
Searching: Allenza -Villalba/Valledolmo, Marsala -Villalba, Trapani-Mistretta, and Mirra/Filippelli- Domanico, Benevento

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Re: Name mess up/mystery mother - citizenship a possibility?

Postby mler » 17 Aug 2010, 22:31

If the ggf remarried and the children took his new name, the new marriage certificate should show the connection between the two names. I'm a little confused about the sequence here, though.

Given the difficulties with this line, see if you can find an opening in the maternal line. Also, is there a possibility through you?


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