citizen jure sanguinis

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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datt
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citizen jure sanguinis

Postby datt » 27 Aug 2010, 19:03

hello i've gathered all the info i need in order to gather documents to apply for dual citizenship. The question i have is this. Ive got photo coppies of my grandparents birthcertificates from italy and BOTH of their names were not transcibed correctly at Ellis Island. My grandfathers name is substantially different. it is easy to see the error when hand written out however. My grandmothers name is off by one letter. Both families (there were brothers and sisters on both sides) took these names and went with them. They are now the family names. Ironicaly both the usa immigration mistakes are also Italian surnames in italy!!! if you may be able to assist. I can fill in the details.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: citizen jure sanguinis

Postby johnnyonthespot » 27 Aug 2010, 19:30

These are the worst sort of "mistakes" - those that result in another valid Italian surname.

I can tell you that at least some consulates take a very dim view of this situation and you are going to have to take extreme measures to, at the least, prove that you have the same person in all of your documents.

Some cosnualtes will insist that you somehow amend/fix all documents so that they reflect the same surname spelling which is shown on your ancestor's Italian birth certificate. This effectively means that you and all family members would be taking on a new surname; most people are not going to be happy about that, I assure you.

The only way that you might get a pass on this is if your ancestor naturalized and if the naturalization papers show both his original Italian name and his new "American" name.

Is your grandfather still living? It would help a great deal ...

When did your grandfather naturalize?

Did your grandmother also naturalize in her own right? If so, when?

When was your father/mother born? If on or after January 1, 1948, you may find it would be better to use your grandmother as your Italian ancestor since her name seems to be substantially closer to its original spelling. Also, you would be able to avoid the forced changing of your own surname; at worst, you would need to correct the spelling of your grandmother's name on your mother/father's birth certificate.

Tell us more about your situation.
Carmine

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datt
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Re: citizen jure sanguinis

Postby datt » 27 Aug 2010, 21:10

my father was born in 1925 but my grandmother from Foggia was not naturalized until 1952. i think i could qualify for jure sanguinis on my grandmothers lineage. Only the a was turned into an o in her surname. My grandfather was naturalized in 1937. In his name the apostropy is gone and the l became a t and the a an o. An alltogether different yet still a unique and authentic italian name. They are all dead. my grandfather came to usa alone and sent for my his parents and 2 brothers and 2 sisters after a few years. here in america they all shared the same name but any italian documents for any of my papas family show a different name. This entire generation is now dead. the 3 brothers and 2 sisters on my papa's side maried the 3 sisters and 2 brothers on my gramies side.

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Re: citizen jure sanguinis

Postby johnnyonthespot » 27 Aug 2010, 21:45

datt wrote:my father was born in 1925 but my grandmother from Foggia was not naturalized until 1952. i think i could qualify for jure sanguinis on my grandmothers lineage.


No, unfortunately not. Prior to January 1, 1948, Italian citizenship was passed only by the father. Regardless of her citizenship status, your grandmother could not have passed citizenship to her son born in 1925.

My grandfather was naturalized in 1937. In his name the apostropy is gone and the l became a t and the a an o. An alltogether different yet still a unique and authentic italian name.


Honestly, I don't know what to say; the consulate is almost certianly going to give you a very hard time over this.

Firstly, you are going to have to prove beyond any doubt whatsoever that the Italian birth certificate you possess is for the same person who later fathered the next generation. This is not going to be easy.

Second, you are going to have to deal with the consulate's almost certain insistance that you "fix" your father's and your own birth certificate to show your "real" Italian surname. This will, of course, upset your entire life ultimately requiring that you get a new driver's license, notify your banks, the social security people, and on and on and on. You simply do not want to have to go there...

Since you have already collected all of your documents, your only real option is to present them and see what happens. I do hope you will remember to come back and let us know.
Carmine

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datt
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Re: citizen jure sanguinis

Postby datt » 27 Aug 2010, 22:27

thanks carmine!!!
i will let you know how it turns out!! there are a few "local" documents i need to get and we are collectively sorting through assorted documents looking for the conection between the two names and trying to determine exactly when and why the name changed. there are holes in the immigration theory as "papa" came over alone then "sent" for his parents, brothers and sisters a couple years later. Yet the italian documents for all of them show a different family name then the one used here. ???? Its so mysterious and clues are far and few between. .....


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