certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascita

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timo
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certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascita

Postby timo » 18 Sep 2010, 15:41

I'm going to be applying for dual citizenship and am preparing the packet to be presented to the Italian consulate. I've been reading the very helpful posts on this excellent site but am a little confused about which document(s) to request from the comune's Ufficio dello Stato Civile for my paternal grandfather, who emigrated in 1912 as a boy with his parents and siblings.

I've not seen the certificato di cittadinanza listed in the required documents in the instructions one can download from the consulates; but I've seen postings here to the effect that one must prove that the ascendant was an Italian citizen not merely that he/she was born in Italy.

Do I send to Italy a request for his long-form birth certificate with apostille as well as a certificato di cittadinanza with apostille for him?

Thanks

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby suanj » 18 Sep 2010, 16:03

no all italian consulates in foreign country asking the certificato di cittadinanza( certificato storico di cittadinanza); so it depend from what ask the italian consulate in your state; abt the birth certificate you must request:
Estratto di Atto di Nascita-Modello Plurilingue
need not of apostille because the certificate is relayed by Commune
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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby ricbru » 18 Sep 2010, 16:05

Dear Timo,
on his real birth record there is not written that your grandfather is italian citizen. The law about italian citizenship is from 1912, so, regarding all the papers the registrar should have about your grandfather, you need to have a paper certifying that he was born as an italian citizen
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

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timo
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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby timo » 18 Sep 2010, 17:17

suanj wrote:abt the birth certificate you must request:
Estratto di Atto di Nascita-Modello Plurilingue
need not of apostille because the certificate is relayed by Commune


Thank you for the clarifications.

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby johnnyonthespot » 18 Sep 2010, 17:31

In particular, I believe the Miami consulate requires the Certificato di Cittadinanza in all cases. On the other hand, I am not aware of New York City requesting this from any applicant, myself included (grandfather was born in 1886; left Italy in 1910). In fact, Miami is the only US consulate I have seen mentioned in this regard.
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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby timo » 18 Sep 2010, 18:39

ricbru wrote:Dear Timo,
on his real birth record there is not written that your grandfather is italian citizen. The law about italian citizenship is from 1912, so, regarding all the papers the registrar should have about your grandfather, you need to have a paper certifying that he was born as an italian citizen
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo


Riccardo, although the local consulate did not ask for it, it would be good to have it, so I will ask the comune. Thanks for your reply.

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby timo » 18 Sep 2010, 18:41

johnnyonthespot wrote:In particular, I believe the Miami consulate requires the Certificato di Cittadinanza in all cases. On the other hand, I am not aware of New York City requesting this from any applicant, myself included (grandfather was born in 1886; left Italy in 1910). In fact, Miami is the only US consulate I have seen mentioned in this regard.


Thanks for that piece of info, Carmine. My cousin will likely be applying through Miami and I will let him know of this.

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby kontessa » 18 Sep 2010, 18:48

I think that Newark asks for this as well, unless I am mistaken.

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby sforza » 18 Sep 2010, 22:12

I've also been informed that Newark requires them. I'm attempting to get one for my maternal GGF. From the initial response from his comune, I've gotten the impression that these need to be manufactured; the comune does not keep these on file. Maybe others who have actually gotten these can elucidate. But I've re-written his comune asking that they produce one for him.

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby johnnyonthespot » 20 Sep 2010, 14:38

I vaguley recall posting somewhere long, long, ago, my feeling that all consulates in all cases should insist upon a Certificato di Cittadinanza (or some other proof of citizenship) and that I could not then and still don't understand why they do not do so.

As we know, merely being born in Italy (and thus having an Italian birth certificate) does not confer or imply citizenship and most of the birth documents we are working with for our grandparents, great-grandparents, etc, contain no information regarding the citizenship status of the child.
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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby suanj » 20 Sep 2010, 15:26

a my NY friend becoming italian citizen in dec 2009; I prepared all documents and translations; no certificato di cittadinanza was required...
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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby timo » 20 Sep 2010, 23:49

johnnyonthespot wrote:I vaguley recall posting somewhere long, long, ago, my feeling that all consulates in all cases should insist upon a Certificato di Cittadinanza (or some other proof of citizenship) and that I could not then and still don't understand why they do not do so.

As we know, merely being born in Italy (and thus having an Italian birth certificate) does not confer or imply citizenship and most of the birth documents we are working with for our grandparents, great-grandparents, etc, contain no information regarding the citizenship status of the child.


I might agree, if you modified your requirement to accept alternative proofs. For example, we have an Italian passport from 1912 listing the given names of the children and the full names of the parents. Shouldn't that passport suffice in lieu of a certificato di cittadinanza? Surely you don't think the Italian civil service back in 1912 had less information at hand with respect to the family than the civil service has now 100 years later? :wink:

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby ricbru » 21 Sep 2010, 06:29

Sure, italian passport is given to who only has an italian citizenship, so I think a 1912 passport should be taken as a proof.
At least if the consulate do not take it, you can always send a request for certificato di cittadinanza to the comune and attach the photocopy of 1912 passport.
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby sforza » 21 Sep 2010, 22:40

Does anyone know when Italy began issuing passports and if any civil office maintains a list of individuals who had them?

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Re: certificato di cittadinanza and/or certificato di nascit

Postby jennabet » 22 Sep 2010, 01:20

Any Italian citizen can request the Certificate of Citizenship. But this document is not necessary and is not automatically issued because most Italian citizens live in Italy and are well known by their own Comuni. In addition, they have other documents which ARE mandatory and do identify them by Nationality, i.e., Carta d'Identita, Codice Fiscale, Tessera Elettorale (Voting card), Tessera Sanitaria (Health card).


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