Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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cmuzio
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Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby cmuzio » 19 Nov 2010, 17:48

My Materanal GF was born in Italy and naturalized (I think) in 1941. My mother was born in 1928. Does this make me eligible? I have my GF's Italian birth certificate. If I am eligible, does anyone know how I can get his naturalization record? Grazie for any help you can offer. Cheryl

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vanessa1105
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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby vanessa1105 » 19 Nov 2010, 18:10

What year were you born? Women could not pass Italian citizenship prior to Jan 1st, 1948.

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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby cmuzio » 19 Nov 2010, 18:13

I was born in 1954.

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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 19 Nov 2010, 19:05

From what little info you have given, yes, it appears that you would qualify.

Where was your grandfather residing in the latter 1930's through 1941? This will give some clues as to which court he may have naturalized in and therefore the quickest way to obtain copies of the documents.

There is a reasonable chance that the National Archives will have the records. USCIS will certainly have them, but they are the slowest and most expensive of the various sources. In addition, state and/or county archives may have the records as well, but only if he naturalized in a state/county (as opposed to federal) court.

See my post in this thread for info on how to request documents from NARA and/or USCIS: http://italiangenealogy.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=18689/

If you tell us where your grandfather resided, we may be able to suggest another source.
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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby cmuzio » 19 Nov 2010, 19:57

Thanks for your reply Carmine. His name originally was Guido Perini, but at some point it was changed to Theodore. He was born in 1900, and immigrated in 1905. He lived in Haverstraw NY for nearly all of his life, though I know he worked in NYC as a young man. I have checked the records for Rockland County NY, with no naturalization results. Again, thanks for any tips you can offer. Cheryl

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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 19 Nov 2010, 20:25

cmuzio wrote:I have checked the records for Rockland County NY, with no naturalization results. Again, thanks for any tips you can offer. Cheryl


In that case, he probably naturalized in a federal court and you should have good results with the National Archives. Thankfully, NARA typically responds to naturalization requests within two weeks; be sure to order certified copies as that is what the consulate will ultimately require. When filling out the online order form, there will be several fields which require input even though you may not have the information available; just put xxx's or 999's in the field and add a note in the comments box at the bottom of the form.
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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby Biff83 » 19 Nov 2010, 23:07

edited--incorrect record

Could this be him?

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7295/zzperini.jpg

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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 20 Nov 2010, 00:34

Biff83 wrote:
Could this be him?



Ah, yes, the classic "understatement". :) :)
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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 20 Nov 2010, 00:44

Here are the associated documents. Of course, you will still need to order certified copies; I definitely suggest the National Archives based on speed and cost.

Click a thumbnail once to enlarge it then click the image again for maximum magnification.

PS: This Guido was married to "Nella" and had sons, Harry, born in New Jersey in 1934 and Louis born in New York in 1938. Guido had previously filed a Declaration of Intent circa 1918 while residing in the Cleveland, Ohio area. Guido was living on West 44th Street, New York City, at the time of the Declaration (1937) and the Petition (1941).


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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby dmbozza » 20 Nov 2010, 18:47

I qualify for Italain Citizenship through my GF via jure sanguinis, which means my Father is also an Italian Citizen as well. My question is does he (My Father) have to apply for dual citizenship before I can? He is on his 70's and doesn't have any intereest in doing so, meanwhile me and all my brothers and sisters, spouses and children (both adult and minors) all wish to do so.

I have been collecting all the required documents and was going to bring my wifes & adult children papers as well when I finally get an appointment in Philledelphia, even thou I understand they(my spouse & children) might have to wait until I have been recognized... but I'm really concerned that my Dad is not intested in doing the same through the Italian Consulate in Miami for his dual citizenship.

Can anyone shed some light on this particular situation...

Many Thanks,
Doug

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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby uwlaw » 24 Nov 2010, 19:36

Doug,

Your post probably should be in a new topic, but...

Your father will not need to apply to have his citizenship recognized before yours is recognized. Rather, either he will just need to sign a statement that he never renounced his citizenship -- or you will need to sign such a statement on his behalf (this varies based on the consulate).

Please note that most consulates will allow your adult children to apply at the same time as you, while others will require them to submit a separate application. If the latter, their application will be very straightforward if yours has already been approved. Your wife will definitely need to apply at a later time, as she does not have the legal right to apply until after your citizenship is recognized (unlike your children, who are already citizens).

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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 24 Nov 2010, 20:19

Hi, uwlaw - good to see you here.

Just a couple of points:

1) we have recently seen a few reports of a consulate insisting that a living ancestor (a father in that case as well as this one) not only must apply to be recognized, but that he must do so before his child (the original intended applicant) can do so. Strange, I know, but there it is. Some diligent searching in this forum should eventually locate the pertinent threads.

2) in New York City, minor children apply with their parent and, if recognition is granted, the parent is then allowed to register the birth of his/her adult children using the standard procedure for birth registrations found on this page http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/Consol ... to_civile/

3) "or you will need to sign such a statement on his behalf (this varies based on the consulate" - Actually, I think the applicant can only sign on behalf of an ancestor if that ancestor is deceased; a living ancestor must sign him/herself.

Of course, the rules vary by consulate, as you noted, and are always in a state of flux...
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Re: Citizenship through Maternal GF?

Postby uwlaw » 24 Nov 2010, 20:42

Good points, Carmine. I had only heard of the "living ancestor must apply first" rule being applied when the living ancestor in fact was interested in citizenship. For example, in a situation where an adult child and his parent living in different jurisdictions wanted to each apply for citizenship, the consulates would require that the parent's application be processed in the one jurisdiction before the adult child's would be processed in the other (which makes sense in a way, since the parent's recognition makes the adult child's infinitely easier). News to me that some consulates were requiring those who aren't interested in citizenship to apply in order for their adult children to be recognized. But nothing surprises me these days! :)

Note that San Francisco has, at least in the past, allowed an applicant to make a "Declaration of Non-Renunciation" with regard to living, as well as deceased, ascendents by completing the following form themselves: http://www.conssanfrancisco.esteri.it/N ... ttuale.pdf The same has been true in Boston, at least in the past.

But, as you correctly note, your mileage may vary, depending on the consulate at which you apply. And the rules are always, always changing!


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