children

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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bmilazzo
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children

Postby bmilazzo » 19 Nov 2010, 23:20

Once I am granted Italian citizenship, how do my children apply? Two are over 18, one is under 18.

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Re: children

Postby mler » 20 Nov 2010, 00:54

You can register your minor child at the consulate. Actually you should submit his/her birth certificate with your own application, but you can still do it later. Some consulates will also permit you to register the births of your older children. If not, they simply apply with documentation proving your citizenship.

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Re: children

Postby johnnyonthespot » 20 Nov 2010, 01:08

And before you do, you should consider the small but nevertheless possible negative consequences.

For example, Italy eliminated military conscription (the "draft") not so many years ago and, as in the US, there is always the very small possibility that it could be reinstated in time of national or international emergency.

Also, it is widely believed/known that dual citizenship can affect a US citizen's ability to qualify for Top-Secret and possibly other security clearances. If there is any chance that your children may be planning a career in the US military, CIA, FBI, etc, then you should think twice before burdening them with Italian citizenship.
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Re: children

Postby uwlaw » 24 Nov 2010, 20:05

I agree with Carmine that there are potential drawbacks to having one's Italian citizenship recognized. However, when it comes to security clearance, one of the factors taken into account by the US government is whether the acquisition of citizenship was through a voluntary act of the person requesting clearance. If citizenship was acquired by virtue of birthright, or if it was recognized by virtue of one's parent's request, each of these factors would militate in favor of clearance being granted. If the person is willing, at that point, to renounce the foreign citizenship, it is a further factor in favor of granting security clearance. As such, the odds that citizenship jure sanguinis will actually adversely affect a clearance finding -- particularly if citizenship was recognized through a parent's request -- are, in my estimation, generally overated.

On the other hand, citizenship laws are fluid. Take, for example, the example of Irish citizenship. Many of those living abroad who did not take the simple act of having their children's citizenship recorded (in a manner similar to the recordation of foreign births under Italian law) have now precluded their children from obtaining Irish and EU citizenship. Don't underestimate the possibility of Italian law changing in a manner which would preclude your children from later having their Italian/EU citizenship recognized. -- especially with Italy currently in a state of political flux.

Note also that Italian law requires the registration of each of your children on AIRE, which effectively constitutes a recognition of their citizenship. And the forms requesting regcognition of your citizenship request information about your children for this purpose. I'm not sure how you would go about having your own citizenship recognized without having your children's recognized -- unless you willfully failed to disclose them on your own application form. I imagine you could seek the consulate's advice on this. I certainly wouldn't fail to disclose them without the consulate's consent (and I'm not even sure if I would fail to do so it someone at the consulate told me it was OK).

Weighing these factors, I decided to have my own citizenship recognized (along with those of my children). But your own decision, of course, is your own.

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Re: children

Postby mler » 25 Nov 2010, 14:14

I have to disagree. My daughter holds a very top level security clearance, and to maintain this clearance and to continue the work she is doing, she did not apply to have her Italian citizenship recognized with me and my son. She is polygraphed periodically, and has been told that, based on her clearance level and the type of work she does, a second citizenship would adversely affect her career prospects.

Italian citizenship recognition IS a birthright, but one must take an affirmative action in order for this to happen. If your Italian citizenship is recognized, and you then renounce it in order to obtain a sensitive
government position, it would be more difficult to reacquire it than it would be to simply apply for recognition after you retire.

BTW, both she and my son are listed on my AIRE form. Only my son, however, has an Italian passport, and only his citizenship is officially recognized. The fact that her name is listed on my form, however, does not affect her job and would simplify the process for her if, at some future time, Italian citizenship becomes an option.

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Re: children

Postby uwlaw » 25 Nov 2010, 19:25

Mler, I agree that if an adult who already had security clearance applied to have their Italian citizenship recognized, it would send alarm bells ringing all the way to Washington (which it should). I likewise agree that if someone possesses Italian citizenship -- even if it was recognized through no action of their own (such as through their parents when they were children) -- that would have an adverse impact on their ability to obtain clearance in the first place.

As indicated above, what I was stating is that [1] the fact that a foreign citizenship was granted solely through a birthright, [2] the fact that it was recognized through no action of the individual (such as being included on a parent's application), and [3] the fact that the individual is willing to renounce it, are three of the official factors considered in the case of a dual national, all of which militate in favor of granting clearance.

If a child has their citizenship recognized along with their parents, and they are willing to renounce that citizenship when they later decide to work in a high-profile government job, all three of these factors would be met. Is there a possibility they would still be turned down because of their Italian citizenship? Sure. Particularly if they've lived in Italy, used their Italian passports for travel, or shown other preference for Italy over the US (all of which are official factors which militate against clearance). But, on balance, I think that the chance that my kids will want to live or work in the EU are greater than the odds that they'll want top secret clearance. And, weighing the risk of a change in the citizenship laws, I think it's better than they gained citizenship along with me.

As I said earlier, other folks might come down differently on this -- although I'm not sure if there's a mechanism through which to avoid it if your children are minors. You note that both your daughter and son are listed on your AIRE form. But was your daughter an adult when your citizenship was recognized? If so, and she chose not to apply herself, that would explain why she is on your AIRE form but not recognized as a citizen. The situation with which the original poster is dealing is one in which one of his children is a minor, whose citizenship would in the ordinary course be recognized at the same time as his.

Is there a way for the original posted to get around this if he chooses the impact on possibile top secret clearance when weighed against a possible change in citizenship laws? As I suggested earlier, I'd ask the counsulate if someone wanted to pursue this route. What I wouldn't do is what some other people have suggested on other boards (and I'm not suggesting that you propose) which is to fail to disclose the existence of the child where it is expressly requested on the parent's citizenship application form.

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Re: children

Postby mler » 26 Nov 2010, 03:27

My daughter was an adult when I completed my AIRE form, and that does, of course simplify matters. Regarding a minor child, I believe it may be possible to list that child on your AIRE form without submitting his/her birth certificate. Until such time as the bc is submitted, the child would not be officially registered. If the child is a recognized Italian citizen, he would require an Italian passport to travel to and from Italy, and I'm not certain that the possession and use of a foreign passport would not be a concern.

So maybe when your child grows up, he will want to live and work in Europe and will be grateful that you had the foresight to provide him with the means to do so effortlessly. Or he may aspire to a career with the government that will require him to renounce the citizenship you tried so hard to acquire on his behalf. It is impossible to predict the direction our children's lives will take, so the decision to have a minor child's citizenship recognized is one that is inevitably based on our very imperfect crystal balls. You make a decision based on what you think is best for your child--and then you hope you're right.

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Re: children

Postby uwlaw » 26 Nov 2010, 11:06

Agreed on all counts, Mler!


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