Commune doesn't like my last name?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Marco925
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Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby Marco925 » 02 Dec 2010, 05:49

Hey guys, I filed all my paperwork and stuff, and looking for a bit of advice, My brother was admitted, so was my Mom into the realms of italian citizenship, but I have a Hyphenated name and the Commune doesn't seem to want to accept it. My brother does indeed not have a hyphenated last name. but I don't think that it should affect my chances of becoming a Citizen, Is there really such a law? i've read pages and pages of government sites looking for such a law and i've found nothing. Anybody have suggestions?

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby jennabet » 02 Dec 2010, 07:47

If you don't have a hyphenated name on your birth certificate, you will have to change your hypenated name back to your given name if you want to be recognized.

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 12:04

Full text of relevant Italian law: http://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg ... d=LEG48583


Google translation of same: http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... 1&ie=utf-8



Summary of law regarding naming of children: http://www.nomix.it/articolo_leggi_10.php

Google translation of same: http://translate.google.com/translate?u ... 1&ie=utf-8

Since your question is not entirely clear on this point, I will say that jennabet alludes to an important point - your "Italian" name cannot be anything other than the exact name which is on your US (or whatever) birth certificate.

In addition, it cannot contain any non-alphabetic characters nor any letters other than those of the Italian alphabet plus J, K, X, Y, and W. You may find that instead of "Smith-Jones" you can have your surname registered as "Smith Jones" but, again, only if that is the way it appears on your US birth certificate.
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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby Marco925 » 02 Dec 2010, 14:03

Birth certificate DOES contain the hyphenated name. with the dash. I'm not so worried about the dash, i just don't want to lose either of the last names. is it possible to keep both?

I forgot to mention that I'm from Canada if that makes a difference, my Consulate is Toronto, and on both the birth certificate and certified copy(long form) the name is there hyphenated.

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 14:26

This question is beyond the scope of my experience so I cannot answer definitively.

Is it your case that your father's surname is Smith, your mother's is Jones, and your own birth certificate says "Smith-Jones"?

Under Italian law, a child's surname is always the same as his/her father's unless the father is unknown ("Ignoto") in which case the mother's surname is used. Blended surname's are not permitted.

In my experience, some allowances are made for foreign-born Italians, but each comune seems to interpret the law slightly differently and each bends a little more or a little less. I would not be surprised however to learn that the computer systems used by modern Italy are designed to not accept any characters other than the ones permitted by law, so that would rule out the hyphen. Forum member Riccardo Bruno ("ricbru") may be able to offer some insight, if you can get his attention.
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Marco925
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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby Marco925 » 02 Dec 2010, 14:30

Yeah Exactly. Last name is MMMM-DDDD

M=Mom
D=Dad

I don't mind if it's MMMM DDDD

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby troycjaco » 03 Dec 2010, 16:15

" ... nor any letters other than those of the Italian alphabet plus J, K, X, Y, and W... "

O great

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby Marco925 » 03 Dec 2010, 16:17

troycjaco wrote:" ... nor any letters other than those of the Italian alphabet plus J, K, X, Y, and W... "

O great


Other than the hyphen, in regards to the spelling, none of the letters are forbidden. in fact My current double last name doesn't contain J K W X Y

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby troycjaco » 03 Dec 2010, 16:22

my last name was americanized to Jacobellis from Iacobellis.

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 03 Dec 2010, 16:33

troycjaco wrote:" ... nor any letters other than those of the Italian alphabet plus J, K, X, Y, and W... "

O great


In other words, no funky characters like those of the Cyrillic alphabet or Chinese symbols. Also no numbers or other characters such as @#$%* and so on.

Italians do not use modifiers such as Jr or Sr, though at least some comuni have decided to accomodate foreign-born Jr's such as myself; apparently many comuni refuse to do so.


The Italian alphabet has 21 characters: A B C D E F G H I L M N O P Q R S T U V and Z.
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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby troycjaco » 03 Dec 2010, 16:45

Nn capisco perche' nn c'e' la lettera 'j' nella lingua italiana. Ho pensato che alcuni dialetti di sud usano la lettera. come barese, napuletano.

but i see what your saying john

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 03 Dec 2010, 17:11

troycjaco wrote:Nn capisco perche' nn c'e' la lettera 'j' nella lingua italiana. Ho pensato che alcuni dialetti di sud usano la lettera. come barese, napuletano.

but i see what your saying john


I am not an expert on this subject, but I am told that Italian dialects are spoken, not written languages. To wit: "In modern Italy dialects are still the primary spoken idiom, though the standard Italian is virtually the only written language" ( http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Italian/Italian.html ).
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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby kontessa » 03 Dec 2010, 19:15

troycjaco wrote:my last name was americanized to Jacobellis from Iacobellis.


Troy, this might NOT be a problem, but no one can say for certain until you present your papers. Can you document this letter change?

(Sorry to the OP for going off topic for a moment.) I had the same issue with our last name beginning with an 'I' - some family members in the US kept the 'I', others went with a 'Y' and others still with a 'J'. I was worried sick about the problem, but I did have the naturalization paperwork that had been signed by my ancestor with the 'Y'.

And a bit further off-topic: My husband's last name is spelled two different ways in Italy - some use an 'i' and others replace it with a 'j'...same name, none issue.

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby troycjaco » 03 Dec 2010, 21:58

funny you should say that kontessa, its the same with me.

I think "y" and "j" are surname varients of their italian originials.

but yes i presented documentation of the name change at my appointment and thank God they accepted.

heres a great free website to look up the meaning of your last name.

http://www.cognomiitaliani.org/cognomi/cognomi0001.htm

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Re: Commune doesn't like my last name?

Postby VittorioE » 04 Dec 2010, 04:55

Question ... is your name hyphenated on your birth certificate?


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