HELP can't find documents!!

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goingtorome
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HELP can't find documents!!

Postby goingtorome » 02 Dec 2010, 11:52

My great-grandfather is supposed to have been born in the USA (Illinois) according to his Italian baptismal certificate and the word of his parents on their voyage to America in 1913, however, I have contacted and requested a search in the archives for the city in which he was to have been born in (Panama, Illinois -- NOT the country) but they couldn't find any birth record. I also requested a search from the USCIS but they also found no records for him.

According to the records from Ellis Island, my g-g-grandpa came once in 1905 (single and 21 yrs old) and the next time was in 1913 (with wife and 4yr old son).

What should I do??? Searches came up negative in Italy (the two towns his parents came from) as well.

Thanks!

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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby Italysearcher » 02 Dec 2010, 12:23

If he was baptized in Italy his baptismal certificate should give his birth date or say when he was born (last month, yesterday etc.)
If he was born in the USA I find it hard to believe he was baptized in Italy. Traditionally the baptism occurs fairly quickly (less than a week). Today it can be months but not 100 years ago.
Maybe the child was registered under the mother's surname, since the father was in the USA since 1905 how could he father a child born in 1909.
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby goingtorome » 02 Dec 2010, 12:26

Your guess is as good as mine. I've been trying to figure this out for over a year now. :(

I'll try to find out what date he was baptized! Good thinking!

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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby goingtorome » 02 Dec 2010, 12:33

Also, here is his information (maybe someone can do some searching for me??)

Name: Antonio (or Anthony) Alberto (or Albert) Perona, born 26 May 1909. Panama, Illinois (if not Italy). Died: June 15, 2000 in San Bernardino, CA.

Father's name was Vincenzo (or Vincent) Perona, born in Prascorsano, Italy 13 August 1885.

Mother's name was Catterina (or Catherine) Perona (maiden name, Locanetto), born in Levone, Italy 29 November 1891.

Thanks!

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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 12:43

If all else fails, you may want to try to have a "delayed record of birth" created by Illinois Vital Records. See http://www.idph.state.il.us/vitalrecord ... faq.htm#16

That should solve your problem nicely. :)

PS: If they are anything like New York State, you will need a certified translation of the Italian Baptismal Certificate...
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby goingtorome » 02 Dec 2010, 12:51

"L'anno 1910 l'otto di aprile nella Parrocchia di S.Andrea di Prascorsano è stato presentato un bambino di sesso mascolino, nato il 26 del mese di maggio 1909 in ILLINOIS - America del Nord - Panama - figlio di Perona Vincenzo del vivente Antonio nativo di Prascorsano e della Locanetto Catterina del fu Giacomo nativa di Levone.
Amministrò il battesimo Don Francesco Ghiglia e si imposero i nomi Antonio Alberto - padrino Perona Antonio e madrina Rolando Perino Caterina moglie del padrino."

(from baptismal certificate of Antonio Alberto)

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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby maestra36 » 02 Dec 2010, 12:53

Is this your ancestor in the Social Security index? If so, his application for his social security card should have his place of birth on it. It currently costs $27:

PERONA, TONY A 26 May 1908 15 Jun 2000 (V) 92 92404 (San Bernardino, San Bernardino, CA) (none specified) New Mexico SS# 525-18-4848

Even though he died in Calfiornia, his social security benefits were paid out by New Mexico.

To send for his application, you can do so online with a credit card:

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps9/eFOIA-FEWe ... t/main.jsp

If you are uncomfortable doing it electronically, you can search his name as spelled above on www.rootsweb.com where it says social security index. To the right, there is an option which, if selected, will generate a letter for you to mail with your payment.

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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 12:59

For reference, see http://italiangenealogy.com/Forums/view ... 17765.html

Manifests and other documents are there...
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 13:06

Possible WWII Enlistment Record:

U.S. World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946 about Tony A Perona
Name: Tony A Perona
Birth Year: 1908
Race: White, Citizen (White)
State of Residence: California
County or City: San Bernardino

Enlistment Date: 4 Apr 1944
Enlistment State: California
Enlistment City: Fort Macarthur San Pedro
Branch: No branch assignment
Branch Code: No branch assignment
Grade: Private
Grade Code: Private
Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law
Component: Selectees (Enlisted Men)
Source: Civil Life

Education: Grammar school
Civil Occupation: Salemen, to consumers
Marital Status: Married
Height: 00
Weight: 000
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 13:18

See here http://www.archives.gov/veterans/milita ... cords.html

and here http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/milita ... ublic.html

for information on obtaining Antonio/Tony's military records including DD-214. Hopefully these will state his place of birth as Panama, IL and, along with the baptismal record, will be sufficient to have a Delayed Record of Birth created.
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby lilbees » 02 Dec 2010, 13:59

Carmine, don't forget that there was a fire at the Archives in Missouri that destroyed military records for those that served in WW I and WW II except for the Navy. There are few that survived.

The only thing I was able to retrieve was my uncle's mustering out pay at the end of WW II.

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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 14:36

lilbees wrote:Carmine, don't forget that there was a fire at the Archives in Missouri that destroyed military records for those that served in WW I and WW II except for the Navy. There are few that survived.

The only thing I was able to retrieve was my uncle's mustering out pay at the end of WW II.

lilbees


Hey, I can't remember everything! :)

See the section beginning with "Surviving a Fire" - http://www.archives.gov/veterans/resear ... -nprc.html

If goingtorome seeks creation of a delayed record of birth, it appears he/she will need more than just the Italian baptismal record to support the request. No harm in searching any available records, even incomplete military data.
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 15:09

As an aside, the social security number and date of birth in this California death index entry differ from the details in the Social Security Death Index record mentioned in the other thread. I wonder which is correct?

California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Catterina Perona
Name: Catterina Perona
[Catterina Locanetto]
Social Security #: 548-14-9853
Sex: Female
Birth Date: 29 Nov 1891
Birthplace: Other Country
Death Date: 11 Jun 1984
Death Place: Kern
Mother's Maiden Name: Girott
Father's Surname: Locanetto
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby suanj » 02 Dec 2010, 15:15

The search came up negative in Italy, surely, but by ship's manifest, Antonio Perona is a US citizen, born in Panama, IL; so because the family came back in Italy, in Prascorsano, they surely registered the Antonio birth presenting the US birth certificate to italian civil records officer, so from 1909 to 1913 the Antonio birth registration must be in Italy and most probably in Prascorsano; from the transcription of US certificate of birth or baptism certificate, in Italy, you can know the right birthplace...
however one thing;
in 1913 arrival, Vincenzo Perona declared that he was in Panama, IL from 1908/9;
Caterina: never;
Antonio: USA born...

so this discrepancy... sound strange...
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Re: HELP can't find documents!!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Dec 2010, 15:33

Gointorome - do you have Vincenzo/Caterina's marriage certificate yet? When were they married?
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