Naturalization

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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tlisti
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Naturalization

Postby tlisti » 05 Jan 2011, 21:37

Need advise..

GGF & GGM & Son A came to US in 1888.
Census shows: 1900/na, 1910/al, 1920/pa, 1930/na
Have letter from USCIS that states GGF did not naturalize after 1906. GGF Died March 31,1940, so won't show on 40 census and couldn't register as alien.
Have letter and Alien Registration Form from USCIS that shows GGM was not a US citizen as of Sept. 10, 1940.
Have WW reg. info. showing Son A Declarant as of 1917.

Question: If GGF had naturalized prior to 1906, wouldn't GGM and/or son A have automatically become citizen? I know that after 1926 she wouldn't have, but I have letter from USCIS that shows he didn't file with them after 1906. Is this proof enough that GGF didn't ever naturalize? Thanks for help and any info.

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Re: Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jan 2011, 21:55

Potential pre-1906 naturalizations are very difficult. Since the USCIS records only date back to September, 1906, the consulate will require you provide endless proof that he did not naturalize in a local, county, or state court during the years between 1888 and 1906. This will require "No Record Found" letters from each court which would have had jurisdiction for every city where your GGF resided during those years.

Additionally, since your GF came over as an Italu-born child, you will have to provide separate proofs specifically addressing his naturalization status. It's a dirty business, for sure.

"If GGF had naturalized prior to 1906, wouldn't GGM and/or son A have automatically become citizen?"

Yes, but unless you request a search on that basis, the record for the son may not show up in a "normal" search.

In short: you are most likely going to need separate "No Records Found" letters for both your GGF and your GF. These letters will have to come from USCIS, from the National Archives ("NARA"), and from the state/county/local courts for each city in which they ever lived.
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Re: Naturalization

Postby tlisti » 05 Jan 2011, 21:58

Son A was not my GF. My GF, child 8, was born 1907 in Houston, Tx.

So you think that my GGM registering as an alien in 1940 doen't show that GGF didn't naturalize prior to 1926? Thanks.

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Re: Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jan 2011, 22:10

tlisti wrote:Son A was not my GF. My GF, child 8, was born 1907 in Houston, Tx.


I hate to tell you this, but now you just added another concern to the mix. Some consulates, New York and San Francisco for certain, interpret a particular bit of law as saying that if an Italian naturalized in another country prior to July 1, 1912, then all of his minor children lost the right to Italian citizenship regardless of where or when born. In other words, if your GGF actually did naturalize as late as June 30, 1912, then your GF lost his right to Italian citizenship even though he was born in the US before his father naturalized.

So you think that my GGM registering as an alien in 1940 doen't show that GGF didn't naturalize prior to 1926? Thanks.


You and I may see that as sufficient evidence; unfortunately the consulates do not. We have a few members here who have had an absolutely horrific time trying to convince their consulate that their ancestor did not naturalize.

Where would you be applying? (you must apply at the consulate which has jurisdiction over your legal place of residence unless you have the time and resources to be able to apply in Italy)
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Re: Naturalization

Postby tlisti » 05 Jan 2011, 22:19

Houston, Texas, which is where GGF lived from 1900 on...

I'mwondering why my GGM would have registered in 1940 is she were already a citizen...which would prove that, if GGF did naturalize, it would have been after that time...and the USCIS says he didn't.

Should I make appointment with consulate and see what they have to say about it before going to New Orleans (origin in US) to check all the county/state/local records?

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Re: Naturalization

Postby tlisti » 05 Jan 2011, 22:20

correction:

after that time (1926).

...and she states on the alien registration form that she is not a US citizen.

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Re: Naturalization

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Jan 2011, 22:35

tlisti wrote:I'mwondering why my GGM would have registered in 1940 is she were already a citizen...which would prove that, if GGF did naturalize, it would have been after that time...and the USCIS says he didn't.


The consulates assume that people and governments make mistakes. The fact that your GGM registered because she believed she had to does not prove anything concerning your GGF's status. For example, your GGF could have left her name off of his own naturalization papers. Or, he could have naturalized after 1926 (?) at a time when wives did not automatically naturalize with their husbands.

Either way, I hear where you are coming from, but the record here and on other boards is that the consualtes are very difficult to please in cases of no-naturalization. It is easy to prove that someone did naturalize (just produce the paperwork) but very difficult to prove that he or she did not.

Should I make appointment with consulate and see what they have to say about it before going to New Orleans (origin in US) to check all the county/state/local records?[/quote]

Yes, I agree. But be prepared for the worst. Check out this thread - http://italiangenealogy.com/Forums/view ... ation.html
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