Do I Need A Lawyer?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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ande
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Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 07 Jan 2011, 19:53

Hi Forum Members,
The State of New Jersey Vital Statistics just informed me that they will not correct my deceased mother's maiden name on my birth certificate without a court order. They said it's because there's too much of a discrepency between what I'm saying is her correct name Giusppina Masino which is on her birth certificate and her maiden name on my birth certificate which is listed as Jean Messina. I provided them with a copy of her New York City birth certificate and her death certificate but they said it wouldn't do. I've made several phone calls to the Surrogate in the county where I live and in the NJ town where I was born and no one seems to know how to get such a court order.
Does anyone know the procedure or how I can proceed from here? Or even if there's a service or a lawyer in my area that handles matters like this would be helpful.
I guess I can't go to the consulate with such discrepencies and expect them to accept the documents, right?
Thanks, Ande

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Jan 2011, 20:02

Couple of questions:

1) Is your mother in the direct-line? In other words, are you applying:

Yourself -> your mother -> your grandparent -> etc

or

Yourself -> your father -> your grandparent -> etc


2) How is your mother's name spelled on your parent's marriage certificate?
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)

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ande
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 07 Jan 2011, 20:14

Thanks Carmine.
Yes my mother is in the direct line direct line. Her father, who was born in Italy naturalized AFTER she was born in New York. I was born in 1956. My father's father naturalized before he was born so I can't go that route which woild have been simpler as there is no name discrepency( surname Puleo).
Also, unfortunately my mother's name on her marriage certificate to my father is the same one as on my birth certificate which is the wrong name.( Jean Messina) This was not her correct name and it was never legally changed from her birth certificate which has Giuseppina Masino.
What do you suggest?
Ande Puleo

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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 07 Jan 2011, 20:26

ande wrote:Thanks Carmine.
Yes my mother is in the direct line direct line.
...

What do you suggest?


Makes things very difficult.

I understand your mother is deceased. Your father also?

I have heard of situations like this being resolved by getting several (if possible) people who are able and willing to testify honestly, to create a "Declaration of One and the Same" - essentially a legal document wherein they swear under oath that the person known as Jean Messina was "one and the same person" as she who was known as Giusppina Masino. On a good day, the consulate might be willing to accept this in lieu of changing the actual birth and marriage certificates. On a bad day, you might be able to use these statements under oath to compel the New Jersey authorities to amend the records.

Seems to me I recall at least one consulate which was willing to accept such a statement prepared by the applicant himself. I don't know if I would count on that, however.
Carmine

My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me! :)

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ande
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 07 Jan 2011, 20:32

Thanks Carmine. Yes, my father is also deceased. This is complicated and I may need a lawyer or a service to help.
Does anyone know of any lawyers or services that do this sort of thing?
Ande

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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby corrado » 08 Jan 2011, 00:13

I would think the best kind of lawyer for this is one that handles adaptions, or even a probate lawyer, the first one is a better choice. Go to that court room and spend an hour, you will see attorneys come and go, ask them if they can handle that or can refer you to someone who can. I find a lawyer that is know in that court has a better chance of getting things done. So for example I have a special attorney I use and refer for trafic problems, yes someone in my family got a DUI. I won't go to court on a stop sign violation without an attorney. You don't want a litigation attorney for exmaple or a corporate guy. I am glad I don't live in NJ. Good luck.
Oh here in Illinois you need a court order for an interlining of a death cert.
So there are better ways. The afficidavite approach the last person talked about sure sounds a lot easier and cheaper. Call the consulate and ask their advise.

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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby jschotz » 09 Jan 2011, 13:55

Hello ande. I know these situations can be very trying. But you don't need a lawyer for this kind of action. I have amended half dozen documents in court and you can read about how I did it on this forum here: , It doesn't sound like you need a court order. Go to http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... 11562.html to read about it. Also here: "http://expatsinitaly.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9203" for more up-to-date info on the issue of "one and the same". Check these posts out an feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

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ande
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 10 Jan 2011, 16:27

Thanks Corrado and Jschotz,
I appreciate your responses. It does seem like quite an ordeal to deal with the courts on this. I don't know if I would have the time to do all that. I know an attorney could be expensive but I may have to hire one to do all the work. It seems like an undaunting task for me without an attorney.
Does anyone know any lawyers who specialize in this type of law in New Jersey?
Ande

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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ZingaraD » 10 Jan 2011, 18:42

I also received a letter on 1/7/10 from the State of NJ Vital Statistics informing me that they will not amend my (deceased) grandfather's name on my (deceased) mother's birth certificate. He was born Giocondo in Italy and used the name Jacob while in the US. However, he is listed as Jake on her birth certificate and Jacob on her death certificate, both of which I was hoping to change.

I too have made numerous phone calls and no one I have spoken to seems to know how to get this done including the folks I was referred to my the Dept of Vital Statistics!

I have my mother's original birth certificate from the city in NJ where she was born. It states her name and city of birth as well as her parents' names, ages and their place of birth. I am trying to get a copy,have it notarized and then sent to the state for apostille.

Please let me know if you find a lawyer. I will continue to search for one and let you know if I am successful.

By the way, my appointment is in Newark in July.

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ande
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 10 Jan 2011, 18:50

ZingaraD,
Let's keep in touch here if either one of us finds a lawyer. I think there would be one somewhere. Good luck at the consulate.
Ande

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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby sforza » 11 Jan 2011, 03:15

Ande/Zingara:
Someone on another forum recently posted on winning a court order for a one and the same, albeit in NYC. Perhaps a pm to this individual is in order. http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.or ... t1358.html

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ande
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 11 Jan 2011, 15:43

Thanks Sforza. Will do.
Ande

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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby SChiarini » 05 Mar 2011, 14:23

Just read this post and I am dealing with the same issue. Just wondering if anyone can recommend a lawyer or how they went about handling it.

Thanks!

Stephanie

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ande
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Re: Do I Need A Lawyer?

Postby ande » 07 Mar 2011, 15:05

Hi Stephanie,
I have not been able to find a lawyer who specializes in this specifically. I think your best bet is to call an immigration lawyer and explain what you want to do and ask if it's something they could do. As for me, I can't afford to hire an attorney right now but my daughter will be graduating law school in one year and she'll do it for me (and herself) pro bono.
Good Luck, Ande


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