Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby jennabet » 13 Jan 2011, 19:58

Here is the situation. Waiting to receive the Naturalization Record from August 1913 for the Great-Grand-father, Angelo. I do know that his son, Frank, is listed on the petition, along with the other siblings.

However, Frank was age 19 and married and not living with his father. Consulate says Frank was not a dependent child and there is no controversy because Frank did not lose his Italian citizenship at that time.

Frank died young at age 31. I have searched all local records, courts, etc. for the places Frank lived from age 19 (1913) until his death (1926). There is no record of him having naturalized on his own and I have documentation from all searched.

I already received from USCIS a letter of no record of Frank ever being naturalized but that was before I did an index search. And since Frank is listed on his father's petition, must I pay for another index search for Frank?

Your valuable input is appreciated. Grazie.

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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby ForzaItaliaPgh » 13 Jan 2011, 23:06

I'd say no b/c you already have the letter attesting that USCIS has no record of him. Depending on the consulate you might need a census showing him as an alien after the birth of his son who you are claiming through
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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby jennabet » 13 Jan 2011, 23:41

He was born in 1894. He arrived in USA in 1902 and he did NOT lose his Italian citizenship in 1913 even though he was listed on his father's petition because he was not a dependent child.

But he states on the 1920 Census that he arrived in 1888 (BEFORE he was born). Yeah, that's "interesting".

And he claims he was NA in 1900 (two years BEFORE he arrived). Yeah, that's interesting too.

But I can prove that he was NOT naturalized and that maybe he and/or the census taker were drunk when they filled out that form.

He also stated on 1918 draft card that he was an "Alien".

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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby ForzaItaliaPgh » 14 Jan 2011, 01:24

As long as he was not naturalized when his son/daughter that you are claiming through was born then citizenship was passed on and your claim is valid. If you can prove he was still an alien AFTER the next generation was born, you should be fine. The question will be what your consulate will consider as proof enough. Philly, requires only a letter from USCIS, but I've heard of other consulates (for some reason San Fran pops to mind) as requiring a census from after the next generation ancestor was born as well. It seems like you still have a valid claim, but you might have some trouble over those wildly out of line dates - the consular official might think there are two different people whose docs you are using. That being said, we all have problems with records and dates and names - apparently our immigrating ancestors weren't thinking about anyone trying to track down these documents when they were filling them out ;)
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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby jennabet » 14 Jan 2011, 06:56

The only census he answered was 1920 because he died in 1926 and I do have his apostilled death certificate. Before 1920, he was listed as a dependent child on his father's census of 1910.

In 1918 he registered with the draft board as an "Alien". At that time, he was the father of two children, ages 4 and 1.

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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby jennabet » 14 Jan 2011, 06:58

By the way, the two children, ages 4 and 1 are also listed with him and his wife on the 1920 Census.

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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby ForzaItaliaPgh » 14 Jan 2011, 14:02

So the great grandfather naturalized in 1913, but his son (Frank) was NOT a minor b/c he was 19. Thus, Frank was born PRIOR to his fathers naturalization and was not affected by it. So he would be eligible. One question, was Frank ever an American citizen? If he didn't get it automatically with his father's naturalization and never naturalized himself, it would seem not. Is that correct?
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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby ForzaItaliaPgh » 14 Jan 2011, 14:44

Or was Frank born in the USA and thus gained citiznship automatically? If so, he obviously wouldn't have naturalized and you wouldn't need any documents from USCIS.

Basically, I'm asking is Frank Perri's birth cert Italian or US?
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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby jennabet » 14 Jan 2011, 19:25

Frank was born in Italy. He came to America at age 9. Italy regards him as never losing his Italian citizenship. Whether or not he was ever considered an American citizen, I don't know. The important thing is that he never renounced his Italian citizenship of his own volition.

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Re: Is Index Search Necessary For This Case?

Postby ForzaItaliaPgh » 15 Jan 2011, 00:13

Then you should be fine.
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