Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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beauac
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Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenship

Postby beauac » 16 Jan 2011, 23:34

Well I have already spent so much money (a couple thousand, maybe more, I can't recall right now) and time (blood, sweat, and tears) but it seems like it may end in rejection and I still need to invest probably another 2 grand and much more time to pursue it. I am 100 percent eligible in theory and am technically already an Italian citizen (unrecognized as of now) according to the rules. I have many mistakes on my documents and had planned to correct the newer ones but according to this new thread ( http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... 20191.html ) they are now wanting documents from the municipal archives to be corrected. This all seems very strange to me because it seemed established that these documents can not be changed. In fact the people there already told me they can not be changed under any circumstances. So forum experts, where are you? What is going on here? Almost everyone who applies going back further than grandfather has documents from the municipal archives and many of them have been accepted and recognized. So did they all have documents without mistakes? Seems unlikely. So I hope we can get to the bottom of this issue not only so I can know if I should quit (my documents have many mistakes from the municipal archives why wouldn't they tell me the same as member javaislife) but also so the other forum members can be aware. Thanks so much.

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Steverino3006
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby Steverino3006 » 17 Jan 2011, 02:29

The way I read it, they are not necessarily asking you to CORRECT documents. They are asking for "an official statement form a Court Judge or Vital Statistic Officer w/ correct information w/ regards to names, last names, date and place of birth".

I would think a letter on official letterhead stating something like "the name xxx on the attached official record is incorrect and should properly be spelled yyy. The correct information for this document is:____", signed, with official stamp.

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby DeFilippis78 » 17 Jan 2011, 02:49

I think it has to do with the consulate. It seems some are more strict then others.I tend to believe they WANT you to quit. They certainly dont make it easy. But I am in the same boat as you right now...do I quit? Not because of mistakes, which I do have, but because Im afraid my "no record of naturalization" may not be enough to convince them. This is a very stressful process isnt it?

Drew927
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby Drew927 » 17 Jan 2011, 06:23

DeFilippis-
What makes you feel that your No Record of Naturalization will not be accepted? I am in the same situation and have many letters for them. Is there something new about no naturalization requirements?

Drew

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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby jennabet » 17 Jan 2011, 06:58

Every case is different. Even though you think your case is similar, what applies to one may not apply to another. But it is easier to have a case with no discrepancies or controversy.

My own case went back to my grand-father. He was naturalized when my father was 18 months old and all of my paperwork was perfect. Our family names were never changed and never mis-spelled.

If you think they're making you jump through hoops, you might consider your own age. Are you close to retirement or are you someone who wants to go and find a job in the EU and not necessarily in Italy but in an English speaking country?

If so, this will mean, 1. you don't have any guaranteed source of income from the USA to spend in the Italian economy and, 2. If you get a job in the UK, for example, you won't be paying taxes in Italy.

I can understand why these types of cases might not be as high on the priority list when they have so many cases, as is, to handle. Of course, they can't tell you to come back when you're older and have some means, but it could be what they're thinking when dealing with younger applicants who's living ascendants arn't interested in being recognized but signed anyway just to get you out of their hair.

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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby kontessa » 17 Jan 2011, 09:54

I would never give up. And I say NEVER, especially if the only obstacle were discrepancies in documents. Even if those discrepancies seem to be severe. There is always a solution, you just have to find it (or at least the money to pay for it)! Italians are gifted at finding 'un altra strada' - another way around an obstacle that blocks their path to success. You can take a break and put your case on the back burner until you have the money or time to continue, but don't give up.

I agree with jennabet, that every case is different. However, one common thread amongst many successful applicants is their willingness to continue despite the odds because they know that they have a valid case. Perhaps the solution is finding a different venue - finding a room to rent in another consular district, moving to Italy, etc. - or perhaps you pay an attorney gobs of money to assist with a judicial statement of facts, or you find the way to produce the statement yourself or you discover an alternate SOMETHING in order to satisfy the official who decides your case. But, if this endeavor is important to you, you will eventually succeed despite the odds.

There were frequent bouts of despair, and feelings of hopelessness as I went about gathering documents for my case as well. (Three years of stress!) There were many discrepancies, some so severe that they are definitely deal breakers now in NYC. I also lacked a birth record for someone in my direct line, which I was told by my attorney was impossible to rectify. Each time that I was ready to give up, another pathway seemed to appear that helped to resolve my problems.

Unfortunately, success in some cases involves shameful amounts of money. Not to say that people are actually buying their citizenship, but to be realistic, correcting mistakes can be a very costly endeavor. Sadly, many people must give up for this reason alone.

Hope you find the right path to success as well. Good luck.

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sceaminmonkey
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby sceaminmonkey » 17 Jan 2011, 10:05

has anyone had to get that court order saying that the facts are indeed true? how do you go about that living in NYC?

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby DeFilippis78 » 17 Jan 2011, 15:39

Drew927 wrote:DeFilippis-
What makes you feel that your No Record of Naturalization will not be accepted? I am in the same situation and have many letters for them. Is there something new about no naturalization requirements?

Drew


Is only because mine are concerning pre 1906 and werent handled by USCIS. These records tend to be sketchy or lost all together. So some consulates think just because it isnt found doesnt mean it doesnt exist. In other words, maybe they naturalized and the record is MIA.

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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby Drew927 » 17 Jan 2011, 17:31

Thanks DeFilippis,

My appointment is March 1st and I am becoming very nervous. I read the posts daily to make sure I am not missing anything. Although I believe I have every No Naturalization document I need, I'm still a bit worried.

Unlike a Birth or Marriage Certificate, proof of No Naturaliztion is subject to the discretion of the Consulate Clerk's opinion. I will provide 7 separate letters of No Records found but it is possible that they may request more.

I will have to go with what I have and hope for a best case scenario.
Drew

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby DeFilippis78 » 17 Jan 2011, 17:46

Drew,

I think thats what we all have to do...hope for the best. Let me know how it works out!

Alicia

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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby ForzaItaliaPgh » 17 Jan 2011, 20:07

I agree with Alicia and Drew - go and see what happens - no sense in giving up without at least hearing something DIRECT from the consulate. If the forums are driving you crazy, take a break for a month and relax. I know I've had to do that a couple times. Heck, this is all A LOT easier for us than what our ancestors endured to get US Citizenship.
Researching BARONTINI family from Tuscany

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DeFilippis78
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby DeFilippis78 » 18 Jan 2011, 01:27

Well, there seems to be some people here and there on this board that discourage instead of encourage. I would just ignore them. Thats the advice I was given :)

Alicia

Drew927
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby Drew927 » 18 Jan 2011, 07:03

Beauac-
You have invested too much time and money to turn back now. Finish the corrections and gather as much supporting documentation you can and let the consulate decide. If you don't at least go to your appointment, you have made their decision for them. Don't assume they will say no. I would rather hear it from them.
Good Luck,
Drew

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paraitaliano
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby paraitaliano » 18 Jan 2011, 07:09

I agree with Drew, Too far to turn back!

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beauac
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Re: Debating whether to quit my quest for Italian citizenshi

Postby beauac » 18 Jan 2011, 22:30

Thank you everyone for the replys. It helps to read other peoples opinions and ideas. I really appreciate that. I am unenthusiastically and cautiously deciding to continue pursuing the dual citizenship. I can honestly say that I want it very badly and have good reasons for actually needing it. In the end , if they deny me, I can always write them a nasty letter. :P


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