Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processing

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
User avatar
steveo
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy & San Diego, CA
Contact:

Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processing

Postby steveo » 25 Jan 2011, 16:21

I am stuck on a particularly odd part of my dual-citizenship case, which I am processing in Italy only out of convenience (I live & own a business there). According to the Comune and my lawyer, everything checks out, and I am ready to go ahead with the pratica (process the paperwork) but I've run into what I guess is a fairly common snag.

My grandfather's name, on his birth certificate, reads:
Achille Gaetano Oddo (born in NY, USA)

His marriage certificate, reads:
Gilbert Lawrence Oddo (Washington DC)

And his death certificate, reads:
Gilbert Lawrence Oddo (California)

Everything, according to Italy, is 100% in order EXCEPT in this change of name that takes place from his birth to his marriage. Otherwise, everything else matches up. The comune has stressed that they cannot proceed without a document that A (Achille Gaetano) = B (Gilbert Lawrence).

Even though his last name, parents name, birthdate, etc all match up, this name change has caused a big problem for me. It appears he never legally changed his first & middle name, as no search of document in any archive yields a result. A certificate of no record, in this case, does not seem to be ok, because they have stressed that it has to be ANY LEGAL DOCUMENT, with APOSTILLE, that proves that they are the same person. For them, it seems so simple, for me, it has been very complicated as I don't really know how to find such a thing. My grandfather was born in 1922.

Any information or guidance on this would be DEEPLY appreciated! Thanks so much in advance for your time and assistance!

User avatar
JavaisLife
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 133
Joined: 20 Aug 2010, 22:02
Location: NYC

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby JavaisLife » 25 Jan 2011, 17:18

Hi Steveo,

I just did this - w/ a name change. Was he born in NYC, or state of NY?

(Easier for me to answer your question if NYC, for I've been living downtown doing all sorts of changes).

When was your grandfather born? is it from the Municipal Archives? You can easily get a letter (as I did) that certifies that it is an error on the b certificate (easier to correct 1 document instead of 2) and that Achille Gaetano is Gilbert Lawrence.

Have that letter apostilled (it is certified if from the director) - and translated. You're good to go.

- Marie

User avatar
kontessa
Elite
Elite
Posts: 304
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 19:05

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby kontessa » 25 Jan 2011, 19:23

Hmmm, your situation is fairly unique. You have documents from three different states, complicating any amendment process. Applying in Italy makes chasing this down in the US difficult. If your GF was born in NYC, perhaps the suggestion by java is worth an investigation. What about creating a sworn affidavit at the closest US consulate to you in Italy? There was a woman posting on another forum (expatsinitaly) who had a discrepancy in a DOB on naturalization paperwork and her comune required her to go to the US consulate in Florence to obtain a sworn affidavit. A finding of one and the same would seem to be a solution in your case, but may be difficult to obtain. Wish I had something more concrete to suggest. Sorry. Hope the suggestion from java is workable for you.

User avatar
steveo
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy & San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby steveo » 25 Jan 2011, 20:20

JAVA: Yes, NYC, BRONX BURROUGHS, 1922

Your case sounds exactly what I need, and if you could expand upon a bit more your solution, that would be excellent! I think that would be a potential solution, so let me know what you would suggest.

Kontessa: if I am unable to obtain an amendment the way java suggests, i will definitely pursue this type of solution as well. I hadn't though of that.

Thanks guys, and I am open to more suggestions and ideas, i appreciate the help so much!

Steve

User avatar
JavaisLife
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 133
Joined: 20 Aug 2010, 22:02
Location: NYC

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby JavaisLife » 26 Jan 2011, 14:44

Hi Steve,

I think a birth certificate from 1922 is from the Vital Records. Can you check that for me? If it's from the Vital Records and not the Municipal Archives, they will not write a letter (without much pressure) for they have the ability to change the document itself. However, I'm pretty certain they will not correct a birth certificate to reflect information on later documents. They will say that the birth certificate is correct and the newer documents are wrong and to have those two corrected.

You can - get those corrected, btw. It will take an estimated 90 days for both documents. Quicker, if you have a letter from the Consulate requesting the change.

I think you should go the direction of the same document/sworn affadavit. I am unsure how to do that. But I know that is possible - I'd ask others on this forum to help you.

Ask the Consulate that you are going through to give you a written statement on their letter head.

Check to see where you got your GF birth certificate, if it was from Vital or Municipal. I can help you more - if I know the specifics.

I have the contact information of the people you'll need to speak with (Ms Timbers @ the Vital Records and Mr Ken Kobb at the Municipal Archives).

Marie

User avatar
steveo
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy & San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby steveo » 26 Jan 2011, 18:47

It appears i have both? Possible? Changing one would be enough to make it work, but I'm not sure about that process. Here's what i can tell ya:

This is what it says on the birth cert:
bureau of records*
Form 2 H The city of new york department of health state of new york reigstered number 2273 CERTIFICATE AND RECORD OF BIRTH of Achille Gaetano Oddo
There is a stamp taht says BUREAU OF RECORDS RECEIVED Feb 25 1922 Burrough of the Bronx city of new york dept of health
the birth cert DOES have fine print mentioning that an official record exsists in new york dept of health and mental hygiene

On exemplification record:

the exemplifiaction of birth or death record lists
the new york city dept of health and mental hygiene, which iscounty clerk NEW YORK COUNTY
County clerk and clerk of the supreme court, new york county
signed Jan 7 2010
the exemplification doc also mentions burrough of bronx
signed by Michael Martinm deputy city registrat in the office of vital records of dept health and mental hygiene new york
450 E 141st st, Bronx
Thats for the Exemplification of Birth or Death record, not of the actual birth record

Helpful?

User avatar
hollyolly7
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 80
Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 20:33

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby hollyolly7 » 26 Jan 2011, 19:53

steveo,

I have a problem very similar to yours. I still haven't done the "domanda" at the comune for my citizenship but I will be doing it soon (let's hope..).
I am applying like this: Me-->Father-->GM-->GGF

I have 3 name discrepancies.....
GGF- Giovanni Molinelli---John Molinelli
GGM- Giovanna Molinelli--Jenny/Jennie Molinelli

GM- Anna Molinelli--Gertrude Molinelli

I was planning on proving they are the same people with the following:

DICHIARAZIONE SOSTITUIVA DI CERTIFICAZIONE
(Art. 46 D.P.R. 28 dicembre 2000, n. 445)

La sottoscritta ___________

Nata a ________,________ Stati Uniti d'America il ___________
residente in ________________________

consapevole delle sanzioni penali, nel caso di dichiarazione non veritiere e falsità negli atti,
richiamate dall'art. 76 D.P.R. 445 del 28/12/2000

DICHIARA

che la persona identificata come ____________ nell'atto di battesimo, nato il ____________ a ____________e la persona indicata come John ____________________ sono la stessa persona.

che la persona identificata come _________ nell'atto di nascita, nata il ____________ a ____________ e la persona indicata come _________ sono la stessa persona.

che la persona identificata come _________ nel atto di nascita, nata il __________ a ____________ e la persona indicata come ___________.


Dichiaro, altresì, di essere informata, ai sensi e per gli effetti di cui all'articolo 13 del D.Lgs 196/2003 che i dati personali raccolti saranno trattati, anche con strumenti informatici, esclusivamente nell'ambito del procedimento per il quale la presente dichiarazione viene resa.

La dichiarante,



I've heard that this document is gold....but who knows, it all depends on the comune. I opted to do this because I heard that in the state of New York you cannot make changes on a marriage certificate of a deceased person.
I also got a certified copy of the 1930 census that shows my grandmother and her parents, in the same address that is provided on her marriage certificate that further shows correct ages, names, addresses etc..

User avatar
JavaisLife
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 133
Joined: 20 Aug 2010, 22:02
Location: NYC

Re: Unoffical First & Middle Name Change stalls processi

Postby JavaisLife » 27 Jan 2011, 14:56

Hi Steve,

It's either one or the other (Vital Records or Municipal Archives). I believe Holly's approach is the best choice for you. The Vital Records in NYC will want you to correct the other two documents, for they are "later" and most likely - from their perspective - the documents with "the errors".

I'll investigate some more.

Marie


Return to “Emigration, Immigration, Naturalization and Italian citizenship”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests