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Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
cgiulia
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Postby cgiulia » 29 Jan 2011, 18:53

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campomaggiore
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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby campomaggiore » 29 Jan 2011, 21:03

I recently rec'd my dual citizenship. What was required was proof my father was born prior to my GF naturalization. He was a minor at that time and listed on the petition. Naturalization papers needed no certification, copy was accepted.
Have you verified w/Miami the exact requirements? It might be worth an appt to have them review what you have and provide detailed requirements.

I followed the list of documents required that was shown on consulate website. When I got to my appt. some were not even requested. I had wasted about 6 months of time trying to provide exactly what they wanted.
They did not care much about GM as my line was thru GF and GGF.
Did not request her death cert only BC & marriage lic.
Keep at it. It is worth the hassle and the frustration will prepare you for life in Italy!

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Postby cgiulia » 29 Jan 2011, 21:57

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby jennabet » 30 Jan 2011, 04:26

The case I'm working on for my fiancee's grand-father is similar except for one thing. He was also 19 when his father naturalized in 1913 but he got married the year before in 1912 when he was 18.

We have been advised by the consulate that it would be very difficult to argue that a 19 year old son who was already married could be considered a dependent child. Therefore, he was not naturalized along with his father.

As far as any age of majority in the US at the time, this is not taken into consideration because of his marital status. He also stated on his draft registration in 1918 that he was an "Alien" and not a "Citizen".

Aside from proof of marriage, I don't know how else you could prove your grand-father was no longer living at home and was not a dependent child. By the way, my fiancee's grand-father's name was also listed on the petition but this was probably because the petition had been prepared before he got married.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby jennabet » 30 Jan 2011, 04:36

Also, for your information, here is the direct response we received from the consulate:

"To the best of my belief, if your grand-father was 19 when his father naturalized, then he was not a minor and there is no controversy. However, even if he were a minor at the time, as he was married and living independently it would be exceedingly difficult to argue that he was a dependent child. I believe your grand-father may proceed without qualm to base his claim to citizenship on his grand-father".

By the way, the naturalization took place in New York. But I really don't think it makes any difference in which state the naturalization took place pertaining to age of majority. Naturalization is a Federal process, not a state process.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby jennabet » 30 Jan 2011, 04:44

When you move to Italy to get expedited citizenship, make sure you have at least $75,000 a year in guaranteed income from reliable US sources such as pensions, annuities, social security because you are not allowed to work in Italy during that time. You must also have a notarized letter of invitation from an Italian citizen living in Italy and that person must have enough funds in a bank to send you back to your country of origin should you get deported.

Yes, it sounds so simple, but it's very difficult to stay in Italy permanently without an Italian passport.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby campomaggiore » 30 Jan 2011, 05:17

The age of my father was never mentioned during my interview. What was of importance was that GF was naturalized AFTER the birth of my father. Thus, my father was an italian citizen at time of his birth.
Did Miami tell you specifically your gf had to be a minor? I did not hear of that requirement, but to be fair, I must say it was evident on GF's petition for naturalization that my father was a minor and maybe it just wasn't brought up in conversation at interview.
I took almost 2 yrs to collect everything. Many months lost correcting Death Certf for Gram (wrong birthdate on it) NYS did not want to provide DC's for GF or GM. Major hassle and lots of time lost.
I had my interview in Jan. and had my approval in May. Was told at interview time it would take 6-9 months. Things moved along quicker than expected. Interview was a fantastic experience. Loved every minute of it!! My interview was not in Miami.
If you are applying for multiple people, clarify w/Miami if you need originals for each applicant or if it would ride on your original documentation with copies for the others.
As to passport. I had to wait 60 days from the date of my approval letter before I could make an appt for passport. It was issued immediately at that appt.
Hope this helps.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby jennabet » 30 Jan 2011, 05:27

If you father was born in the USA before his father was naturalized, your father did not lose his Italian citizenship because.

If your father was born in Italy and was still a minor when his father naturalized, then your father was naturalized along with his father and did lose his Italian citizenship.

So your father must have been born in the USA.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby jennabet » 30 Jan 2011, 05:31

Minor children born in Italy are immigrants just like their parents. When the parents naturalize, if the children who were born in Italy are still minors, they are automatically naturalized along with the parents.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby mler » 30 Jan 2011, 13:27

Yes, Campomaggiore, you're confusing your situation with that of cgiula's. The issue of a minor child is only significant if that minor child was himself/herself born in Italy. A minor child born in the US cannot naturalize since he is a citizen of the US from birth; but his name would be listed on his father's naturalization petition, in this case as a matter of information only. (In 1932, the age of majority in both the US and Italy was 21.)

Jennabet's situation is unique in that, in this case, a minor child born in Italy is deemed by Italy to be an adult by virtue of his marriage. Thus, he was entitled to make his own naturalization decision.

BTW, cgiula, you are certainly not wasting time or money by gathering your family documents. If you do decide to go the expedited citizenship route, you will need them to prove you qualify.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jan 2011, 13:56

cgiula, did I read correctly that you have a Pennsylvania birth certificate for your grandfather, even though he was actually born in Italy?

And that your mother's birth certificate gives her father's place of birth as Pennsylvania?

Under normal circumstances, these incorrect "facts" would really mess you up; but, is there a way you can turn this to your advantage? Can you make the case (using the documents available to you) that your GF was born in the US, before your GGF naturalized?
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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby mler » 30 Jan 2011, 15:41

I think the only problem with that route is that the delayed bc indicates that his parents were born in Austria. I think this would create difficulties in terms of establishing the continuity of the Italian line.

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Postby cgiulia » 30 Jan 2011, 15:44

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby mler » 30 Jan 2011, 15:50

Yes, that date discrepancy and the listing of Austria on his bc may present a problem. If you use it, how do you show a connection between him and his Italian-born parents from whom Italian citizenship derives.

Then, too, you need to consider how you will establish that your mother (whose bc indicates a father born in PA with a father born in Austria) is the same person who is the child of an Italian citizen born of Italian parents. Your gf certainly made things difficult.

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Re: Wish I had a time machine... dual citizenship roadblock!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 30 Jan 2011, 15:55

I am sorry to have to say that you have such a mess here; no matter which route you tried to take, you would have some serious document corrections to be made with little hope of success.

Honestly, even if you were to try for Italian citizenship via expedited naturalization (reside legally in Italy for three years plus up to two additional years for processing), you still have the problem that your mother's birth certificate gives an incorrect place of birth for your GF. You would have to convince the Pennsylvania authorities to correct this document and hope that they are willing to give precedence to your GF's supposed Italian birth certificate over the Pennsylvania document already on file. All while running the risk of opening a can of worms concerning your GF's two differing countries of birth.
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