Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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DJP1812
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Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby DJP1812 » 07 Feb 2011, 15:33

Hi All,

I am currently in the middle of putting together my Citizenship application, but I just hit a major snag. I sent away for my Great Grandparents marriage record from NYC and received a letter back with no records found. I got the marriage date & location from my great grandfather's naturalization papers. I could not find their names on any of the online indexes. I am at a total lost on how to get this document, if it even exists. I have tried emailing & calling some churches near his old addresses but have had no luck. I was wondering your thoughts on where to go from here, if not quit.

Can I somehow use the local LDS church?Should I have a friend in NYC, go the archive building in person and start searching microfilms? If I did go to the LDS church, is there anything I can do to prepare?

Any ideas? I really rather not give this up. I have so much information on this line (ME > F > GF > GGF). My maternal side had way too many name changes, so I rather not start collecting those documents.

Thanks so much, once again,
D

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby JavaisLife » 07 Feb 2011, 16:11

Hi D,

For my gm birth certificate - I received 4 letters of no found. Then I went down myself and they found it. For a marriage record I had no luck searching under my GGF last name, so I search under my GGM maiden name - found it months later. I'd say keep searching.

Also, what's written on the naturalization papers could be off. Widen your search when you go to the archives. ... give them additional years to search, and type in some misspellings/alternative names.

Good Luck,
Marie

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby DJP1812 » 07 Feb 2011, 16:19

Thanks! Glad to hear you had some luck actually going there. I think I am going to have my friend go and do some actual searching. I believe my GGM came to USA in 1913 and I know they were married by 1918 (on WW1 record).

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby JavaisLife » 07 Feb 2011, 20:21

Compensate your friend well, the Municipal Archives can be a big pain in the arse!

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby sforza » 08 Feb 2011, 15:53

I'm grappling with the same problem. Cannot find my GGF's marriage cert. You should -
1. Go to the municipal archives, as Marie states, you may just find it yourself. That's what happened with m GGF's birth cert. To find documents that are not showing up on in indices, you have to go through the rolls of microfilmed certs themselves. This is time consuming, as there can be several months delay between when marriages took place and when the church sent them to the city. You should search a year past when the marriage took place (if you know) just to be sure.
2. Search LDS - they have items that are not (1) in the available indices at the archives and (2) no longer at the archives at all (lost over time). If your situation is (1), then you're fine - just get the cert # and order it from the archives. If it's #2 (find it at LDS but no records at archives) you'll have to somehow get a ltr from archives that the item has been lost.
3. If you come up empty from LDS and municipal archives, get a no-records ltr from archives.
4. Continue to call churches. Map your GGPs addresses from census records and other vital records and start w/the closest churches. Usually, the church of the bride was used. You should also try to collect no-records ltrs from the churches - these can help you if you don't end up finding anything - demonstrates you really, really looked.
5. Get certified census documents that they lived together as married. Also, WWI draft reg cards have spousal name - more evidence of marital r'ship.
6. Oh, and confirm that you're positive they never lived anywhere else but NYC.

I can tell you I've done all the above. From all the time I've spent at archives, I can also tell you that there are huge gaps in the marital records: I got to know alot of the church names from this process, and there are entire years without a single marriage cert filed by some churches that I know existed at the time. It was an imperfect system.

At the end of the day, birth in wedlock of the next in line is not technicallly a requirement for jus sanguinis. I'm not sure if the Consulate will see it this way, but there's a case to be made. And I plan on making it. I'll let y'all know how that works out for me.

Good Luck!

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby DJP1812 » 08 Feb 2011, 16:20

Thank you so much for your insight!!!!

Others in the forum also stated the marriage doc is not necessary, but it might be a very hard case.

Good luck, and please keep me posted.

I am having a friend go to the archives, but I am not that confident as it might overwhelm him.

I plan on going to an LDS chruch soon. Is there anything I can do to prepare before I show up at the church? I have never been.

Thanks!

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby belmoro19 » 08 Feb 2011, 17:36

Hello, I had the same problem of a missing marriage certificate for my grandparents. I recently had my appointment at the philly consulate and everything went well even wtth the missing certificate. What I was told to do was to get a certified copy a census record showing them as man and wife. Since it was a 1950 census it was expensive but I got it. This is the website if it can help-(since these years are not yet published for the public)

http://www.census.gov/genealogy/www/dat ... bc-600.pdf

Also I gave them every no record found letter(almost 40 of them) I received including from churches, courts and even the funeral director. Lia at the consulate seemed to be very pleased with that. If you can't find the census possibly the No Record found letters will suffice. Not sure but worth a shot. Like stated earlier marriage is not a requirement but atleast show them that you tried to find it. My appointment ws a success and a hope that yours will be too. Buona Fortuna

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby musaccosteve » 08 Feb 2011, 20:51

At your Regional NARA office you can get a certified copy of any Census Report for $15.00. Beats a $65.00 price tag. If you are close to your regional office, they will access and certify a report while you wait. Otherwise, from what I have read on this forum, it could take up to 3 weeks by mail. With my regional office (i.e., Riverside, CA), you can even call or email your request.

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby Rodio » 08 Feb 2011, 21:16

DJP--

I had the same thing happen with my GGP's MC. The county did not have their record. I used a Family History center (LDS) to order the microfilms of the county records of their year of marriage. It can take a few weeks for the films to arrive at the FHC, and then you can search the records there. It took me only 10 minutes to find their record! I was able to get a photocopy of the record at the FHC, which I sent to the county again, and received an official MC shortly thereafter.

Not all LDS churches have a FHC, search for your closest one here:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... c_find.asp

Bring all of your info to the FHC pertaining to this record. The staff is usually friendly and helpful. The staff is also not allowed to proselytize, so don't worry about that. They will help you find the films you need and how to order them from Salt Lake City. It's usually about $6 a roll, and they'll send you a card letting you know when they arrive. Don't be afraid to ask questions there; I found the experience pretty painless.

Buona fortuna.

edit--FWIW the date for my GGP's marriage was the same on their naturalization papers.

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby belmoro19 » 08 Feb 2011, 22:00

The link posted for the census record of $65 is for census records that are not published for public view or available from NARA. The years are 1940-70 for those that might need records for those years. I only used it as a suggestion for those needing those years. I thought it might be helpful. I know it is pricey but its the only way to get those years or as far as I have been told. Thats why I used it. Sorry for any inconvenience this might have caused.

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby DJP1812 » 09 Feb 2011, 15:15

Thanks belmoro, musaccosteve, and Rodio for your feedback!!!

It's great to know I shouldn't stop trying!

I found the 1930 Census for them and their Children! I am still searching for the 1920.

Thanks so much for the personal stories and the heads up on the LDS info!

I really appreciate it! I am still going to have my friend search the archives as it couldn't hurt!

-D

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby JavaisLife » 09 Feb 2011, 15:43

Can you use FamilySearch to find divorce records? I'm looking for a divorce record between 1908-1915 in Yonkers/Manhattan New York ...

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby DJP1812 » 09 Feb 2011, 16:36

I have personally never found a divorce record. Would be interested though.

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Re: Citizenship Setback, Any Thoughts?

Postby Rodio » 10 Feb 2011, 19:38

DJP--

Glad to be of some help. Taking a second look at this thread, first, don't ever give up!! Many people (including myself) have contemplated this, as this process can definitely be challenging, but you sometimes have to think outside of the box to get the results you need.

If the NYC archives and the LDS records come up with nothing, do what belmoro did. You already have a census record, keep looking for the 1920 census, and get as many 'no record' statements you can. At least it will show you put a sincere effort in to locate the record, and hopefully Miami will accept it as is.

Buona fortuna.


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