which consulate to go to????

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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ital1
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which consulate to go to????

Postby ital1 » 15 Feb 2011, 08:08

what would happen if you had 2 addresses due to your situation with your parents and you live 90% at one address with your father and have license etc under this address (and pretty much consider this the address you now live at/main address) but the other address you lived nearly all your life at before you started uni (your mom's address) and you receive more support and have bank statements etc still under this address, would you be able to choose which consulate you use as the addresses are under 2 different jurisdictions and go with the one which is more easy?

can citizenship be taken away if it is recognised at the 'wrong' consulate?? and if you lie to say your living back at an address that is still your address regardless and even if you have proof of residence?? I mean Italian citizenship is not affected by where you live, it's a birth right....

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby kmaldo » 15 Feb 2011, 09:42

I have been required to present my California Driver License every time I have had an official dealing with the LA Consulate. This seemed to be an even more important piece of identification than my US passport. In fact, the citizenship officer explicitly stated that she could work only with those who at present fall within the consulate's jurisdiction, and the single piece of proof of address that was requested was a current driver's license.

I don't know what would happen if you "lied" about your address, but this might technically invalidate your application, since the consulate has the authority to approve citizenship only for those residing within its jurisdiction.

To be on the safe side, I would choose the consulate that has jurisdiction over your father's residence, since that address is the one that appears on your driver's license. If this is one of the more "picky" consulates, and you find that they are giving you a hard time, you then might want to consider officially changing residence and obtaining a driver's license from the state in which your mother lives, and try the consulate that covers that state (assuming that that consulate is more "forgiving"). I don't think bank statements would suffice.

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ital1
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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby ital1 » 15 Feb 2011, 10:03

i actually already got my passport under my mom's address and it was sufficient just a bank statement and passport - i also just said i was taking time off study and back at that address - the lady at the consulate acted as if address was not really that important anyway and now (about 2 months after i got my passport) i have also through my experiences realised that my mom's address is where i actually get more support etc and therefore have made it my official permanent residence although i continue to spend more time at my dad's for study.

am I therefore at risk of getting italian citizenship taken away... i really don't understand why i would be - i have been an italian citizen since birth technically speaking and i did my application with all true documents... Is't your address really just a beauracratic process?? I mean I wouldn't lose my other citizenship if I put down a 'wrong' or other address to what I spend most of my year at and technically you are entitled to the italian citizenship just as much - BIRTH RIGHT.

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby kontessa » 15 Feb 2011, 13:36

Strange. This very same question was posed on another forum about a month or two ago, with details very similar to yours. I could be mistaken, or you just didn't like the answers you received, or there is someone out there wondering about the exact same thing you are, or...???

General consensus of those responding to this same type of question was that your address doesn't really matter. I'm not even sure the consulate actually checks all of those addresses that people have to list (where they've lived after the age of 18)! You are lucky if you have a choice of which consulate to use, and should take advantage of that.

Imo, what matters most is that you not intentionally distort the truth on your application.

Also, why the worry now, after the fact?

Now if the real intention of your post was to start a debate about citizenship being your 'Birth Right', have at it! :lol:

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby mler » 15 Feb 2011, 15:32

When my son and I applied several years ago, I lived in the Newark jurisdiction and he in the New York jurisdiction. I completed an application in NY and we went in together, but they told me that I could not apply using my son's address because I did not actually live in NY. My son continued his process, and several months later I submitted an application in Newark.

Was I ever surprised when, three months after my Newark application, my son called to tell me that he had a letter of citizenship recognition from the NY consulate, and I had a letter too. Apparently, they never removed my application form from his file, and since he was applying through my line, they processed us both.

We got our passports and then I went to Newark and explained the situation. I simply completed an AIRE form indicating my NJ address, and the consulate obtained my paperwork from NY. No one was in any way perturbed about my application being submitted and processed by a consulate that did not serve my jurisdiction.

So I would suggest that you apply where it is most convenient to apply and where you get the earliest appointment.

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby kontessa » 15 Feb 2011, 16:56

ital1 wrote:i actually already got my passport


I second what mler has said. And since you already have the passport, all you have to do to is keep one of the consulates informed of a current address.

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ital1
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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby ital1 » 16 Feb 2011, 00:40

Thanks for the responses... I guess I shouldn't worry then but what worries me is just at the time i got my passport i was convinced that my mom's address was NOT my main one and I am more worried about the fact that I lied that I was living back there when in fact I wasn't but it was because I was convinced that i don't really live there anymore (i just go home for holidays) and that i live at the other address with my dad.... it was only after i realised that by getting my passport under my mom's address was correct when i further thought about the address situation - i get more support from my mom, i still have important things under her address, and it is where I will return when I finish study... but this was about 2 months after I got my passport... I just want to get my citizenship recognised again and this time I would explain the situation as it is clearer to me (i know this is stupid but I don't know what to do to stop worrying) - also there was no part of my application where I or anyone in my family had to fill out our places of residence since the age of 18 - each consulate must be different.

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby mler » 16 Feb 2011, 20:19

Don't worry. Your citizenship was recognized; you are an Italian citizen. It doesn't really matter if you suspected that the address you used was not your actual legal residence. The consulate processed your paperwork, and it is a done deal. There is absolutely no problem.

The only reason I explained my situation to Newark was that they had my application and documents, and I wanted them returned to me. Otherwise, you simply go in to your consulate and say you want to update your AIRE information (address, marital status, births, etc.) They will want proof of residence for an address change but nothing more.

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby ital1 » 17 Mar 2011, 11:14

wow I'm replying to this about a month late! Thanks for your answers.

Yes to answer one of you guy's question I did post this question in another forum earlier only to see if I would get similar responses that I shouldn't worry about the address situation.

Also I spoke to my consulate where I got my passport (my mum's address) and asked them this question - they told me that there was absolutely no way you could get your Italian citizenship taken away because of wrong address etc. but they could cancel you in their system if they couldn't contact you for some reason (but this is not taking away your passport or citizenship) Also they had a very "you already have a passport - don't worry" kind of attitude. Also might I add as I now officially consider my mum's address as my permanent one I'm technically registered under the correct consulate anyway.

I must say though, that the Italian way of doing things is not only overly bureaucratic but very disorganised and annoying and in the true line of things people don't do their jobs/don't really care about you when in fact they're actually working FOR YOU. In my country of birth (Australia) there is half the paperwork and waiting time and absolutely no fuss in regards to things like your address - just put what ever address is more convenient as long as it is an address of yours (as some people don't think/care about things like permanent residence etc and have two addresses especially youths in my situation) and things will reach you!!

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby jennabet » 17 Mar 2011, 21:37

Consulates in the US are required to work within US guidelines which have become more and more difficult since 911. It's much easier to work with Italian bureaucracy in Italy. For example, I never once heard the words, "identity fraud", most likely because residents of the European Union are afforded more privacy rights.

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby mler » 17 Mar 2011, 21:49

Foreign consulates in the US are not required to do anything according to US guidelines. When you walk into an Italian consulate you are, in effect, in Italy, and US laws do not apply. Even in Italy, you must apply at the comune in which you hold residence.

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby jennabet » 17 Mar 2011, 21:53

Italian consulates must work within the guidelines of any country they operate in. It's called "having diplomatic relations".

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby mler » 17 Mar 2011, 21:56

Actually, I misstated. The Italian consulate is not Italy; it's still US territory. But the consulates are exempt from most local law, and US representatives or law enforcement personnel may not enter the consulate without permission. Certain diplomats are also immune from prosecution even when they are off consulate/embassy premises. Diplomats regularly flaunt US law, even outside the consulates--drives NYC police crazy.

In any case, Italy makes its own laws regarding jurisdiction, at the consulate and at the comune level.

Regarding identity fraud, Italian citizens are required to carry an ID identifying them as Italian citizens. There have been several proposals to require something similar in the US. It hasn't gone very far though because some (notably the ACLU) believe that forcing people to carry such cards is an invasion of privacy. Quite frankly, it would be an invasion of privacy to which I would have no objection.

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ital1
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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby ital1 » 18 Mar 2011, 00:53

my point nothing to do with the US, just a comparison between Australia and Italy and which government works more effectively which is clearly Australia (as I said insignificant factors are not seen as really important here) this is not to say I am as ignorant to think Italian law doesn't come into play when dealing with Italian Consulates. The US is probably worse than Italy due to heaps of illegal immigration etc.

Anyway this convo was about your address and how it has NO affect on your Italian citizenship. Also each person working within each consulate seems to have a different understanding of legal residence that it is ridiculous - some state that it's where you study and/or work regardless of your full situation whilst others state that it's where you receive most support etc i.e. family home and you just study away - also some that I asked say it is where you have been living more than 3 months!

Also there are contradictions in Australian laws such as your license in which if you live away from your permanent address for more than 3 months in Australia you need to have a license from the state you now are living in regardless of whether it's your legal/permanent residence or not - eg. you go on a round trip in australia for a year, technically your license needs to change if your away from your permanent residence for more than 3 months - and this is true. This contradicts using a license as proof of residence.

The general Australian youth in my situation with 2 addresses would not think twice about things like which one is their actual legal residence etc as in Australia your address does not play such an important part in things unless as I said your license (which most people don't care/know about). For example when getting my Australian passport I got it under the same address as I did my Italian passport and told them my situation they just said "you know it's just the address to send you out the passport - use which ever one you feel most comfortable." So as you can see my point is that small little insignificant things like address in relation to your Italian citizenship are stupid when played as such important things when they have absolutely NO IMPACT ON CITIZENSHIP, people all have different ideas of what permanent/legal residence is and youths in my situation don't really think about or care too much about which address is their main one - and it makes it worse when consular officers are telling you "you live there get it there" and so on so forth.

It also all depends on which consular officer you get, some don't even care about the rules like address etc in fact one told my mum to put down she was separated instead of divorced as it would be less work for the consular officer to process but I stepped in (being the good person I am) and made them do the right thing.

I am ranting on too much here but it's just I have been worried about this address thing for too long and it's JUST AN ADDRESS and when explaining to my friends etc they just think I'm mad and there's absolutely no problem - it seems as most of you agree. :)

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Re: which consulate to go to????

Postby mler » 18 Mar 2011, 01:10

Darn, I missed that you were Austrailian. Anyway, it's good to know you're no longer worried about this. And belated congratulations on your citizenship. :)


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