San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

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heidebock
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San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby heidebock » 24 May 2011, 04:02

Hi, I have a mail-in appointment scheduled for August with the San Francisco Consulate. I've asked Mr. Cei so many questions so far that I'm afraid to ask another & risk leaving a bad taste in his mouth... So I'm throwing myself on the mercy of the forum:

does anyone know how to handle forms 2A and 2B in the application? I get the sense that 2A is filled out by the applicant, but 2B is more of a mystery. Does 2B actually have to be filled out by any living ascendants in the direct line? Nothing in the form mentions specifically that living ascendants need to fill it out. I've also read in other posts that only the applicant needs to fill this form out on behalf of any of their ascendants in the direct line.

Does anyone on this forum have a definitive answer? Better yet, has anyone recently been through the citizenship appointment with Mr. Cei who can speak from experience?

I look forward to hearing from someone!

thanks in advance!

Erik

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby jennabet » 24 May 2011, 04:11

Good question. First we had the living ascendant sign 2B. On a second look, we decided the applicant should fill out 2B. Since we're still scratching our heads with this one, we will submit two 2B's and the consulate can use whichever one they see fit.

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby johnnyonthespot » 24 May 2011, 10:40

The New York consulate uses Forms 3 and 4, Declaration of Living Italian Ascendant and Declaration of Deceased Italian Ascendant (bottom of this page http://www.consnewyork.esteri.it/NR/exeres/9F0288DC-69D1-46F7-AE8B-4F8687831E3E,frameless.htm?NRMODE=Published).

I filled out a Form 4 on behalf of my deceased, Italy-born, grandfather. At my second consulate appointment I was told I needed one for my father as well. I explained that I thought it was for Italian ascendants (meaning born in Italy) and was told, no, if I am to claim Italian citizenship, then all of my direct-line ascendants have to be Italian (duh!) and thus a Form 3 or Form 4 was needed for everyone of my direct-line ascendants.

If my father were still living, he would have needed to complete Form 3 and either sign it in front of a consular official or in front of a notary public and then have the document properly notarized. Since he was already deceased, I created a Form 4 for him (and also for my grandfather) and signed both in front of the person who took my application.

PS: New York has an entirely separate form (Form 2 - Declaration of Applicant) which is to be completed by the applicant him/herself. All three of these forms serve to state that the named person never renounced his/her Italian citizenship, and to list all the places in which he/she resided. From what I gather, if a form indicates that you or an ancestor resided in cities covered by three different consulates, your consulate (where you submit your application) will contact each of the others and request a records check to see if the named person is found in that consulate's records and, if so, for what reason.
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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby Steverino3006 » 24 May 2011, 15:33

heidebock wrote:Hi, I have a mail-in appointment scheduled for August with the San Francisco Consulate. I've asked Mr. Cei so many questions so far that I'm afraid to ask another & risk leaving a bad taste in his mouth... So I'm throwing myself on the mercy of the forum:

does anyone know how to handle forms 2A and 2B in the application? I get the sense that 2A is filled out by the applicant, but 2B is more of a mystery. Does 2B actually have to be filled out by any living ascendants in the direct line? Nothing in the form mentions specifically that living ascendants need to fill it out. I've also read in other posts that only the applicant needs to fill this form out on behalf of any of their ascendants in the direct line.

Does anyone on this forum have a definitive answer? Better yet, has anyone recently been through the citizenship appointment with Mr. Cei who can speak from experience?

I look forward to hearing from someone!

thanks in advance!

Erik



Applicant signs them both. One must be signed at the Consulate, in the presence of a Consulate Officer (it so states on the form)

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby heidebock » 24 May 2011, 15:50

Steverino3006 wrote:Applicant signs them both. One must be signed at the Consulate, in the presence of a Consulate Officer (it so states on the form)


Steverino,
did you have your appointment with Mr. Cei in San Francisco? If you signed both documents yourself, did you have to fill out forms for each of the ascendants in your Italian line?

thanks for the replies!

Erik

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby Steverino3006 » 24 May 2011, 16:00

Yes, Mr. Cei took over by the time my appointment date rolled around.

I filled out a form 2A for myself.

I filled out a form 2B for my father, and one for my grandfather.

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby johnnyonthespot » 24 May 2011, 16:03

For clarity: a living direct-line ancestor must sign his own form in the presence of the consular official or in front of a notary public.

The applicant can sign for deceased ancestors, but living ancestors must sign their own forms.
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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby Steverino3006 » 24 May 2011, 16:08

johnnyonthespot wrote:For clarity: a living direct-line ancestor must sign his own form in the presence of the consular official or in front of a notary public.

The applicant can sign for deceased ancestors, but living ancestors must sign their own forms.



I was just going to edit my last post when I saw yours pop up.

my father is still living, and I signed the form 2B I filled out pertaining to him. I signed at the Consulate, and based on the paperwork (and presumably our discussion, but I don't recall) they understood that my father is still living.

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby heidebock » 24 May 2011, 16:14

so the conclusion we can draw from this seems to be a common one: that consulate rules vary from consulate to consulate and that they have latitude even in how they execute their own stated rules? Since my appointment is mail-in, it sounds like I could sign 3 copies of 2B, 1 for my mother, 1 for my grandfather, and then 1 for my great-grandfather, and have them all notarized.

I must say, it seems a bit strange, especially given the wording of 2B.

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby Steverino3006 » 24 May 2011, 16:23

I think your conclusion is correct.

I don't see anything in the wording of 2B that makes your being the person who signs these documents strange. In fact, 2b is quite clear that it is the person applying for recognition is the person who is signing, based on their own "best knowledge". But, 2b does say it is for ascendants "born in the US", although it makes sense that a 2b should be completed for the ascendant who was born in Italy and came to the US.

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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby johnnyonthespot » 24 May 2011, 17:43

You guys are correct.

The NYC consulate uses three different forms, one for the applicant himself, one for deceased ascendants to be completed by the applicant, and the third for living ascendants to be completed and signed by the ascendant.

Now that I have looked at San Francisco's forms, I see that they are quite different and meant to be completed solely by the applicant. Good deal!
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Re: San Fran Consulate Forms 2A & 2B

Postby heidebock » 24 May 2011, 18:06

you know, now that I'm reading over 2B again it is making alot more sense given the forum's input. It seems clear now that the forms are for the applicant to sign, regardless of whether or not they have living ascendants. This is kindof like when you listen to a song for a long time and misunderstood the lyrics - then when you finally figure out the right lyrics you can't even remember what you were thinking before... anyway, maybe I'm flying solo on that one, but thanks a bunch to Carmine, Steverino, and Jennabet.


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