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Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
16 posts • Page 1 of 21, 2

Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 13 Sep 2004, 21:10

Please offer me some advice. Besides the "No Records" document required for citizenship, I have acquired every single other document requested by the Houston Consulate. The consulate even wrote me a very nice letter saying that I have excellent paperwork and it seems that I qualify, however I need to sumbit a letter from the National Archives. Little do they know that this is not as easy as it looks. I need some help.

I am requesting citizenship throught my great-grandfather, born in Corleone in 1876, immigrated in 1909, filed the first naturalization documents in 1940, and died in 1948 a resident alien. My grandmother was born in in 1912, so that is not really an issue.

I have called the NARA in Ft. Worth, the lady was very unfriendly. I went to DC, once again they had no motivation to help. Then I went to the INS office in San Antonio, they were as always less than thrilled to help an American. Also, I can not find him in the census, if anybody wants to volunteer a few minutes of their time, do a look in the 1920 census for "Gaetano Mule'" or Miller.

So what do I do? How do I get this one little piece of paper? If anybody has had experience, your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Please email me at mtpizzo@yahoo.it
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby VaDeb » 14 Sep 2004, 02:32

For the 1920 census:
Name is Gaetano Mule or Miller, born in 1876. Do you know what state and county he lived in in 1920? The name of his wife or others that would have resided with him? This information (location) is needed to find him in the census and help identify him as the correct person.

I don't know any details about obtaining Italian citizenship, but this comes to mind: In the early 1940's the government required all aliens to complete an alien registration card.

From the US Citizenship and Immigration Services website:

The green card is formally known as the Alien Registration Receipt Card, Form I-151 or I-551. The first receipt cards were Form AR-3 (printed on white paper), and were the product of the Alien Registration Act of 1940. Designed as a national defense measure, the Act required all aliens (non-U.S. citizens) within the United States to register with the U.S. Government. They registered at Post Offices, and their registration forms were forwarded to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) for processing. After processing, a receipt card (Form AR-3) was mailed to each registrant as proof of their compliance with the law. The Alien Registration Act, however, did not discriminate between legal and illegal alien residents. All were registered, and all received AR-3's in return.

Would this help you prove your ancestor never became a citizen?

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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 14 Sep 2004, 02:41

Did he happen to have a draft cxard for WW1 or was he ever in the uS Armed forces?? Peter
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 14 Sep 2004, 03:00

Gaetano Miller Cook Couty, Illinois. Peter
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 14 Sep 2004, 20:31

Thanks for your advice.

Since I have the alien registration card, maybe I can get a letter from the INS saying that the fact he applied for it and received it proves that he was not a citizen. I think the Italian Consular agent is just being a testa di cazzo.

By the way, the name was Gaetano Miller, Mule, Mula, or Mulla.
He lived at 1906 Harrington in Houston, Texas. He was born in 1867, so in 1920 he would be about 53 years old.

His wife was Caterina Virgadamo. Children were:
Mack - Melchiore
Vita
Francis - Francesca
Frank - Francesco
Maybe one more, I am not sure.

Thanks for your help, since my grandmother was born in 1913, I need the 1920 or 1930 census, I actually have found him in the 1910.

Matthew Pizzo
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 14 Sep 2004, 20:32

Also, no military service.
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 14 Sep 2004, 22:27

The alien registration card will be of no value to you since you only need the card to stay in the USA permanently. If you decide to become a US citizen then the card would only proove that you were in the USA permannently for a required number of years in order to file for citizenship or petition for a relative. You will see that this is not sufficient for your needs. Peter
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 15 Sep 2004, 01:17

Ok, thats fine. It still does not answer my question. How do I get the No Records letter from the NARA.

Thanks, Matt
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 15 Sep 2004, 01:38

I am not an attorney nor am versed in certifications of non-citizenship, howver, Certtificqation of derivative citizenship are issued by the Immigration and Naturalization servicd andnot by the courts. To apply for a certificaiton of citizenship submit form N-600 to your local Immmigration office. Once the N-600 is returned negative. meaning that here is no us citizenship indicated that might be sufficient for your purposes in establishing Italian citizenship. You might also wish to consider going to www.italainlaw.net for an intial consultation and see what they have to say. I only know of them thru the italian forums but they appear to be reputable. Peter
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 15 Sep 2004, 03:53

Thanks once again, you have been a great help. I am going to look at the website tonight. The N-600 has a large filing fee, I am not sure if I am that desperate yet.

If anybody out there has been able to get the "No Records in the Name of.." document from the national archives, please email me. I need advice.
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 15 Sep 2004, 06:10

You also may wish to research this yourself at www.archives.gov whichis the entire NARA site just seeking your "no record of citizenship". Peter
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 15 Sep 2004, 08:33

I went to the Archives in Washington a while back. They provided no help whatsoever. Essentially, they said that the archives have records of records that exist, but not records of records that don't exist.
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 15 Sep 2004, 16:02

Essentially you need the person who is the custodian of citizenship reocrds to declare that such a record does not exist. A person can only be AUTHORIZED to issue a certificate of any kind only by the CUSTODIAN of ecords. Find out who is the custodian and then request a record of NON-EXISTENCE. signed by the Custodian and issued by the authorized person.
I do not understand your reluctance too seek out a free consultation with an attorney? Just kcall and ask them if ht=thereis a charge for an initial consultation? Peter
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby mtpizzo » 17 Sep 2004, 03:12

The INS is the "custodian" of the records. Are you not american or are you just a lawyer speaking in legalese? But, the Consulate told me that since the INS is incompetent, that they do not accept stuff from them. How nice!! They want documents from the archives, the people told me there that they are just paid by the hour to gaurd records not look at them. Strange.

I do not think that many lawyers can help with this, anyway they charge 300+ an hour and my Italian citizenship is hardly worth a plate of lasagna at best.
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Re: Obtaining the NARA "No Records" Document

Postby ptimber » 17 Sep 2004, 07:26

Go to weww.iotalian law.net and ask them if they would charge you to answer just one question and they may entertain the question free of charge. Next ask them how much it would cost you if they can obtain the certification you need. This law firm works with everryday people with italain legal problems in Italyh and in the USA so they would be the best people o ask. Something is amiss here and thats why I suggested the attoreny routing because it does not sound right to me. The correct spelling is www.italianlaw.net. Peter
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