Divorce Docs

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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lorinigro
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Divorce Docs

Postby lorinigro » 08 Jun 2011, 23:51

I'm helping my uncle apply for his citizenship. He's applying F-->GF. He has been married, divorced and remarried. Does he need to get all of these documents and show them at the consulate? He's applying in NYC.

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lorinigro
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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby lorinigro » 17 Jun 2011, 01:12

Does anyone have any experience with this?

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Jun 2011, 01:19

Sorry we missed this, Lori.

The short answer is, yes, he needs to present his first marriage, divorce, and second marriage documents. He should also include the birth certificates of any minor children.

If his current marriage was prior to April 27, 1983, then his wife will automatically be granted Italian citizenship when his is recognized, therefore her birth certificate will be required as well.
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lorinigro
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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby lorinigro » 17 Jun 2011, 02:45

Unfortunately his first marriage was prior to 1983, and his second took place in the late 1990s. I will make sure he gets all documents. His kids are in their 40s, so no need for their docs.

Thanks Carmine!

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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby dmbozza » 17 Jun 2011, 03:22

Would I need my fathers divorce papers if I'm applying via my GF [ self -> F -> GF ].
I'm married never divorced, my Dad's been Married/Divorced with his 1st wife, married/widowed with #2 and now married with #3. I'm one of seven from his 1st wife.

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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Jun 2011, 13:45

dmbozza wrote:Would I need my fathers divorce papers if I'm applying via my GF [ self -> F -> GF ].
I'm married never divorced, my Dad's been Married/Divorced with his 1st wife, married/widowed with #2 and now married with #3. I'm one of seven from his 1st wife.


First point: you are not really applying through your grandfather; you are applying through your father and your father is, in a sense, applying through his father. This regardless of whether your father is sill living.

Now, having said that, is your father still living?

If yes, then it behooves him (you) to provide all information relative to his marriages, divorce, and even the death of his second wife. To not do so would be a technical violation of the requirement that Italian citizens register these life events.

If your father is not living and, since you are (thank goodness!) a product of his first marriage, you could take the "what they don't know won't hurt them" tack and simply never mention the events which took place in your father's life after your birth.

Which consulate will you apply at? If your father is living, some consulates will insist that he apply first and that you come in on his coattails through a simple registration of birth after his citizenship has been recognized.
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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Jun 2011, 13:51

lorinigro wrote:Unfortunately his first marriage was prior to 1983, and his second took place in the late 1990s. I will make sure he gets all documents. His kids are in their 40s, so no need for their docs.

Thanks Carmine!


Presuming that his own citizenship is ultimately recognized:

1) His current wife would be eligible for citizenship jure matrimonio, a process which takes two years to complete and requires criminal background checks, a €200 application fee, and other factors.

2a) His grown children, depending on where they live and which consulate he will apply at, may be able to have their own citizenship recognized through a simple registration of birth process which requires minimal paperwork and just a few weeks to complete.

2b) If the simple process is not available, the grown children will still have an easy shot using the normal jure sanguinis application process.
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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby dmbozza » 17 Jun 2011, 14:39

johnnyonthespot wrote:
dmbozza wrote:Would I need my fathers divorce papers if I'm applying via my GF [ self -> F -> GF ].
I'm married never divorced, my Dad's been Married/Divorced with his 1st wife, married/widowed with #2 and now married with #3. I'm one of seven from his 1st wife.


First point: you are not really applying through your grandfather; you are applying through your father and your father is, in a sense, applying through his father. This regardless of whether your father is sill living.

Now, having said that, is your father still living?

If yes, then it behooves him (you) to provide all information relative to his marriages, divorce, and even the death of his second wife. To not do so would be a technical violation of the requirement that Italian citizens register these life events.

If your father is not living and, since you are (thank goodness!) a product of his first marriage, you could take the "what they don't know won't hurt them" tack and simply never mention the events which took place in your father's life after your birth.

Which consulate will you apply at? If your father is living, some consulates will insist that he apply first and that you come in on his coattails through a simple registration of birth after his citizenship has been recognized.


My appointment is with the Philadelphia office, in 2012. My father actually has no intent or interest in applying/proving his Italian citizenship which for him should he wish to do so would be through the Miami office.

So am I wasting my time and better off waiting until he passes before I gather up all my docs and reschedule my appointment, when he does? Or should I take all that I have and hope for the best… “What they don’t know won’t hurt them” approach?

My meeting is scheduled for myself, my wife & my two adult children (both are 21+). Perhaps I should go alone as I'll be traveling from North Carolina, and see what they say before having my wife and kids apply separately.

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Re: Divorce Docs

Postby johnnyonthespot » 17 Jun 2011, 15:36

Let us hope that your father continues to live a long life. :)

In the purely technical sense, your father's citizenship will have to be recognized by the consulate in order for them to proceed with your own application. This does not mean that your father need act on his newly recognized citizenship or apply for a passport; but it does have to happen. As I indicated earlier, your own citizenship is based directly on your father's and his is based directly on his father's. Your relationship to your grandfather is somewhat of a moot point.

Go to this page at the Philly consulate's site: http://www.consfiladelfia.esteri.it/Consolato_Filadelfia/Menu/I_Servizi/Per_i_cittadini/Cittadinanza/ and click the Form 3 link at the bottom of the page. Since he is still alive, your father will need to complete this document and sign it in front of a notary public or a consular official.

While you are at it, you will need to complete a Form 4 for your deceased grandfather and a Form 2 for yourself. You should hold both of these unsigned and sign them in front of the consular official when asked to do so.

Did you and your wife marry before April 27, 1983? If so, then her citizenship will be automatically recognized along with your own. I can tell you that the NYC consulate did not require my wife to attend nor did she need to sign anything; I simply included her certified/translated/apostilled birth certificate with my other documents. On the other hand, if you married after that date, then your wife will have to file a jure matrimonio application which is much more involved and will have to wait until your own case has been decided. As you can see, there is no need for your wife to join you in Philly in either case.

As for your children, since they are adults, they will be handled in one of the two ways noted in my post just above. Once again, there would be little point in their joining you in Philly.

PS: Since your father has no interest in pursuing his own citizenship, you can probably get away with the "What they don’t know won’t hurt them” approach.

The worst possible outcome here is that the Philly consulate may insist that, since your father is still living, he must submit his own application with the Miami consulate and you have to wait for that to be approved before proceeding with your own case. There have been a few reports of this here and on other boards; I am not sure if Philly is one of the consulates so inclined.
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