Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby yznhymer » 19 Sep 2004, 01:18

I was wondering if anybody had maneuvered around this situation? I apparently qualify for Italian citizenship recognition through my grandfather and father. My father, however, won't cooperate by providing his US birth certificate. As you know, its virtually impossible to get a copy of his certificate without his permission until he dies.

In the absence of his birth certificate, is there any other way to satisfy that requirement, i.e. to show he was the son of my grandfather and born after my grandfather's naturalization date? For example, my grandfather's naturalization certificate has a notation that my father was alive at the time it was awarded.

Anybody have any experience with this type of situation?

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 19 Sep 2004, 02:00

what country are you in? Peter
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby yznhymer » 19 Sep 2004, 02:46

US
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 19 Sep 2004, 04:02

Perhaps an attorney can assist. Peter
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby mtpizzo » 20 Sep 2004, 21:51

What state do you live in?

In Texas, I just went to the vital statistics office with a list of all the certs that I needed (12 in total) and they didn't ask a question.
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 20 Sep 2004, 22:37

Mr Pizzo The person who posted the inquiry advised this forum that hios father refused him permission to obtain his birth certificate. Where do you come off telling the inquirer to disrespect his fathers wishes, lie and commit fraud (which it is!!!!!) on this forum. Your street attitude is just that. Peter
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby yznhymer » 21 Sep 2004, 02:55

MTPizzo,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'd never get away with that in NYC. You have to provide identification to get a birth certificate. To get the birth cert of another person, you need written permission from that person as well as a copy of their identification. Its a pretty tight system.

I have sent an email to the Italian Consulate here in SF asking if there are alternatives but I'm not hopeful.

Mark
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby pinevalleygirl » 21 Sep 2004, 15:13

I don't know why you would want to have Italian citizenship when you are already a US citizen. What would be the purpose? I'm proud to be a US citizen with Italian ancestors, that's enough for me. There must be some reason your father doesn't want you to have the birth certificate. Have you ever seen it? Maybe there is something he doesn't want you to know about the family.

Anyway, I don't know what goes on now but years ago an Italian citizen who was in the US sometimes had to go back to Italy to serve in the Italian army for a period of time.

Good Luck!
Searching for ancestors . . .
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby tbottegal » 21 Sep 2004, 16:51

pinevalleygirl wrote:I don't know why you would want to have Italian citizenship when you are already a US citizen. What would be the purpose? I'm proud to be a US citizen with Italian ancestors, that's enough for me.


Why are you searching for your Italian ancestry? I have documented my American ancestry, that's enough for me.
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 21 Sep 2004, 19:07

Dear Wise in Heimer! Your willingness to disrespect your fathers wishes and violate the law (your just afraid of the punishment and not the morality)can only be described as a character flaw. Sorry Peter
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby mtpizzo » 22 Sep 2004, 03:08

ptimber wrote:Mr Pizzo The person who posted the inquiry advised this forum that hios father refused him permission to obtain his birth certificate. Where do you come off telling the inquirer to disrespect his fathers wishes, lie and commit fraud (which it is!!!!!) on this forum. Your street attitude is just that. Peter


Mr. Timber,

I was just telling my story, the Texas office did not care who requested the documents. Even if they did care who was the requestor, I am sure that simply saying "I am applying for Italian Citizenship and need to buy the birth certificates for my sisters, brothers, mother, father, grandparents, my own birth certificate, as well as five death certificates." Would convince them that you have a legitimate purpose.

I was just saying that sometimes it is simpler to just play the vital office game than actually get a lawyer and file petitions.

Also, I should point out that if the guy ever gets all of the paper work, the consulate will request that the father sign a letter stating that he never revoked his citizenship and will want a copy of the driver's license. So maybe he needs to think more about the larger picture either reconcile with his father or amazzalo perche i morti non devono firmare quelle lettere. I am joking, but he could really wait until the father dies.
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby yznhymer » 22 Sep 2004, 03:26

I may very well have no choice but to wait until his death, providing I don't predecease him. In any event, I can gather much of the other remaining documentation and have it ready to use or to leave to my sons for their use. It will still be interesting to see what response I get from the Italian Consulate here.
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 22 Sep 2004, 03:34

Perhaps a simple inquiry to an attorney at www.italianlaw.net might be free of charge. You only have to ask!!. Peter
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby mtpizzo » 22 Sep 2004, 06:14

Mr. Timber,
Out of curiosity, do you work for www.italianlaw.net?
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Re: Alternative to US Birth Certificate for It Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 22 Sep 2004, 06:16

No but I do know where to send people for correct information, p[ossibly free of charge and consistent with the law, morality and the American way. Peter
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