Do I need to file an amendment?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby Xaymara » 24 Jun 2011, 01:27

I am three months away from my appointment with the Los Angeles Consulate. My line is GF-> F-> Me. After reading the consulate's requirements about a thousand times I thought I had everything under control until I noticed for the very first time the following sentence:

CERTIFICATES REPORTING ONLY THE "COUNTY" OF BIRTH CANNOT BE ACCEPTED. YOU MUST REQUEST THE VITAL STATISTICS AUTHORITY TO DECLARE THE CITY OF BIRTH.

After carefully checking all certificates I noticed that two of them do not have the city of birth, just the state or country. These are: my grandfather's marriage certificate and my father's death certificate. The marriage certificate is from Puerto Rico and for place of birth it says Italy and my dad's death certificate is from Georgia and has Puerto Rico for place of birth. Does this mean what I most fear, that I have to file an amendment to the certificates to include the city of birth?

Also I am assuming (and hoping) this only applies to the Italian line since the consulate doesn't ask to have translations or apostilles on the non-Italian side. Am I correct in this assumption?

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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 24 Jun 2011, 13:28

Xaymara wrote:The marriage certificate is from Puerto Rico and for place of birth it says Italy and my dad's death certificate is from Georgia and has Puerto Rico for place of birth.


I honestly do not believe you need to worry about either of these. Certainly "Italy" will not be an issue, and I doubt that "Puerto Rico" on the death certificate will be a problem, either.
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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby Xaymara » 27 Jun 2011, 18:06

I appreciate your answer, Carmine.

I have another issue that's been bugging me since I started my quest for citizenship:

I have my grandfather's original certificate of naturalization from the US District Court of P. Rico dated 9 August 1920, but it is not the first "original" certificate. On the upper left hand corner it says" Old certificate # XXXXXX". His children are listed on this cert. but not my father even though he was born the previous year. I also have unofficial copies of his Declaration of Intent (dated 1917) and Petition for Naturalization (dated 6/30/1919). My guess on the omission of my father's name is that the information for the Cert. of Naturalization was taken from the Petition for Nat. which was filed a month shy of my dad's birth. Per the L.A. consulate's requirements, I can present the Naturalization Cert. as proof of naturalization after my father's birth but the consulate could ask for additional documentation in case of discrepancies to confirm the identity on the certificate of naturalization. So, there is the issue of my father's name not being on the Cert. of Nat. and the "old certificate" note. I could explain my dad's omission by presenting the Declaration of Nat. but the problem there is that my grandfather's date of birth is off by 2 days so it brings to light another discrepancy. In your experience, do you think this might pose a problem?

Also, I'd like to get certified copies of the Declaration of Intent and the Petition for Nat. Are these available thru USCIS or the National Archives? I got really bad copies from the former.


Thank you in advance for your expert advice!

-Maria

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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 27 Jun 2011, 18:19

See this post http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic22136.html?hilit=national%20archives#p163040 for info on how to order these documents from the National Archives.

You should be able to skip the certificate entirely and present the Declaration and the Petition with the completed Oath of Allegiance (which was actually printed on the backside of the Petition form). The signing of the oath marks the moment of naturalization and this is the date which will be used to determine whether your father was born before or after his father's renunciation of Italian citizenship.
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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby Xaymara » 09 Jul 2011, 04:09

I ordered the certified copies from NARA and should get them on time for my appointment in September.

I'm still worried about my grandfather's birth date error on the Declaration of Intent and the Petition. Any idea/suggestion on how to approach this discrepancy? This error appears only on these two documents. His certificate of birth, marriage and death all have the correct date.

I'm currently in Puerto Rico gathering three certificates I could not secure when I was here in March and would like to use this trip to try to address the date discrepancy. Is there something I can do at the US District Court in PR where my grandfather took the oath? I'm aware that Naturalization records cannot be changed.

Thank you in advance for any help on this issue.

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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby kontessa » 09 Jul 2011, 08:12

I'm not sure that any of the consulates are as picky as NYC, so this problem may not even come up during your appointment. However, since you are in a position to secure additional documentation, why not ask the court that issued you the documents to issue you a letter of verification of naturalization? Or some type of certified letter that states that the naturalization documents issued were indeed for your ancestor - using his correct vital statistics? Just a thought. Good luck.

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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 09 Jul 2011, 12:12

There has been something new coming out of the New York City consulate lately that should be cause for concern, especially becasue they are claiming it is the result of a directive issued by the Ministry of the Interior at Rome and, therefore, presumably applies to all consulates.

As reported by member rgaetano in http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic22359.html:

We wish to inform you that since your appointment, a new regulation has been issued by the Ministry of the Interior, regarding the citizenship application process, which pertains specifically in cases such as yours.

As you will recall, this office had pointed out to you that there was a discrepancy in the date of birth of your Italian ancestor, as it appears on the Petition for Naturalization, as compared to the actual birth date as indicated in the original birth certificate.

The new regulation requires that you obtain either a U.S.Court document, or official letter from from a Judge, which states that the person indicated in the Petition for Naturalization and the person indicated in the original birth certificate are one and the same.

We suggest that you resubmit your request for a follow up appointment, by referencing this e mail and when you have the above document in your posession.

We will accomodate your request in the shortest time frame possible.


This promises to be quite a pain in the you-know-what. Since naturalization documents cannot be amended, the only way out that I can imagine would be to petition a court to enter an order finding that the person named on the naturalization documents is the same person identified by the remaining documents such as birth, marriage, and death certificates.

I believe member screaminmonkey is pursuing exactly this path as we speak.
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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby Xaymara » 09 Jul 2011, 14:31

I'm going to consult with a lawyer friend of mine this weekend to get a feel for how difficult it would be to get this court document/letter. In the meantime I've been searching for other supporting evidence of my grandfather's date of birth, other than birth/marriage/death certificates. I have already been told that death certificates can not be used as proof of birth date since the information in such certificate is not verified to be accurate by any government agency. I found in Ancestry my grandfather's draft registration card with the correct date. Anyone know how to request a certified copy of this record?

As always, thank you in advance for your help.

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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 09 Jul 2011, 14:36

Xaymara wrote:... I found in Ancestry my grandfather's draft registration card with the correct date. Anyone know how to request a certified copy of this record?


WWI or WWII?

If WWI, see this thread: http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic15686.html?hilit=tip

I am pretty certain the National Archives will certify any record in its collection for a $15 fee; you would have to inquire before placing an order.
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Re: Do I need to file an amendment?

Postby Xaymara » 09 Jul 2011, 14:54

WWI
I checked the link and will order the copy but first I'll have to make sure they do issue the certified paper copy. I also found my grandfather in the SSDI with the correct date of birth. They offer a certified copy of his application but I'll have to check their processing time before placing the order.


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