If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibility?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
grandpa77
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If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibility?

Postby grandpa77 » 25 Jun 2011, 17:05

I'm pretty sure I'm eligible for Italian citizenship because my GF naturalized after my Father was born.

I plan on renouncing my US citizenship this year. If I do will it affect my eligibility for the Italian citizenship program in the future?

Thank you very much all!

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mler
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby mler » 25 Jun 2011, 18:10

Why on earth would you want to do that? May I also add that if you renounce US citizenship before you obtain Italian citizenship, do you intend to be stateless?

As far as eligibility is concerned, you are equally eligible or ineligible for Italian citizenship regardless of your US citizenship or non-citizenship.

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NOLATom
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby NOLATom » 25 Jun 2011, 20:01

You should check out the laws on renouncing citizenship first. I'm fairly sure they won't let you renounce if; 1) You would be considered stateless after you renounce, and 2) If you are renouncing for the sole purpose of dodging any financial obligations or in an effort to skirt the law.

So, think about it hard before you walk into a US office and renounce your citizenship. You might have just put a big bull's-eye on your back. However, if you are living in another country legally and want to renounce citizenship due to double taxation, then it is perfectly legal and likely the right thing to do, as the US is the only country I am aware of that taxes you no matter what, with very few exceptions.

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aulus
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby aulus » 25 Jun 2011, 20:27

NOLATom wrote: the US is the only country I am aware of that taxes you no matter what, with very few exceptions.


Well, US citizens do have to file a tax return every year no matter where they live, but unless you make more than the tax exemption limit ($92,200 for 2011) you do not have to pay any taxes. So unless someone expects to have a very high income over an extended period of time, I really don't see what the advantage is to renouncing US citizenship.

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NOLATom
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby NOLATom » 26 Jun 2011, 01:28

It's not quite that simple. Whether you own a business or work for an employer, there are strict rules and limitations, thus the reason I said a few exceptions. There are limits on how many days you can be in the US per year. You should read the link below too.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/int ... 45,00.html

And they require you to be in the ONE country for 330 days a year to qualify for the exemption. So, if you work for six months in Italy, then travel Europe, the IRS has the ability to not allow the exemption. If there is one thing about american law, it is that usually common sense does not prevail and that whoever is the best at twisting the meaning of a law comes out on top. That tends to typically be the government.

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby mler » 26 Jun 2011, 02:13

NOLATom wrote:If there is one thing about american law, it is that usually common sense does not prevail and that whoever is the best at twisting the meaning of a law comes out on top. That tends to typically be the government.

:D I tend to think that's true about the laws of most countries.

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aulus
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby aulus » 26 Jun 2011, 02:33

NOLATom wrote:
And they require you to be in the ONE country for 330 days a year to qualify for the exemption. So, if you work for six months in Italy, then travel Europe, the IRS has the ability to not allow the exemption. If there is one thing about american law, it is that usually common sense does not prevail and that whoever is the best at twisting the meaning of a law comes out on top. That tends to typically be the government.

So if you use your US passport only when entering the US, and your Italian passport while travelling in Europe, how would the US government know you weren't in Italy the whole time?

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NOLATom
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby NOLATom » 26 Jun 2011, 03:25

It was a great idea, except.....The government has agreements with the EU to share all passport information and movement regardless of Nationality. My wife does not hold a US passport, as she is a citizen of a European country. Her country only recently signed the agreement to share all passport information and to issue US approved (chipped) passports. Her country does not allow dual citizenship. Friends (who are from the same country) of hers decided to get US citizenship, but keep the old passport, because, well, who would ever know and they could use it when they travel back "home". Not anymore. They were flagged. I don't think people understand just how much information the government really controls. Don't do your taxes and you'll find out if they share info. When I go through customs, they always ask me where I visited. They are not asking this because they don't know, they are asking this because they do.

As a rule of thumb, any citizen of any country who does not require a visa to visit the US, shares their citizens passport information with the US.

People who work in the field I'm in, have been refused security clearance because they failed to mention that they were holders of another citizenship. They know. They know everything unfortunately. Ask the people who went through the whole Swiss Bank scandal last year.

And here is a tidbit most don't know. When you naturalize to say, a country such as Ireland, you will receive a letter from the US state department telling you that you "may" lose your US citizenship. How do they get this info you suppose? Here is the link on why the letter is sent.

Carefully read the 4th sentence of the 2nd paragraph.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _1753.html

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NOLATom
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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby NOLATom » 26 Jun 2011, 03:45

Here is some more detailed information in reference to renouncing or losing your citizenship.

When it's renounced (if and when it can be)
http://www.travel.state.gov/law/citizen ... p_777.html

When it's stripped.
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship ... p_778.html

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby grandpa77 » 26 Jun 2011, 04:33

Thanks everyone. I already have another citizenship. So I won't be stateless. I can hold off renouncing if I need to keep US citizenship in order to get Italian citizenship. I figured that I might need to keep US citizenship to get my Italian citizenship through this program because my Grandfather gave my father Italian citizenship by Naturalizing in the US after my father was born. So I figured maybe I needed to stay a US citizen for this program.

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby jalapeno89 » 26 Jun 2011, 09:09

My only question is about your other citizenship. Did you voluntarily take another citizenship. because i know that if any of your ancestors took a foreign citizenship, they lost italian citizenship... would this also apply to you? The only reason i was granted italian citizenship is because of the fact that since my grandfather left italy, neither my mother nor myself voluntarily took another citizenship... being born in the US is automatic citizenship... I don't mean to be a downer, i just don't want you to have to go through this long expensive process only to be told that you don't qualify...

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby mler » 26 Jun 2011, 13:38

Delete please - duplicate post

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby mler » 26 Jun 2011, 13:43

NOLATom wrote:Don't do your taxes and you'll find out if they share info. When I go through customs, they always ask me where I visited. They are not asking this because they don't know, they are asking this because they do.

As a rule of thumb, any citizen of any country who does not require a visa to visit the US, shares their citizens passport information with the US.


. . .and such sharing is reciprocal, lest anyone get the idea that it is only the US government that receives information regarding certain of it citizens' activities, and this applies not only to governments but to private corporations as well. When we opened the doors to the computer age, we said "goodbye" to much of our privacy.

NOLATom wrote:People who work in the field I'm in, have been refused security clearance because they failed to mention that they were holders of another citizenship. They know. They know everything unfortunately.

Someone who wants a security clearance should not "fail to mention" that he holds citizenship in another country. Pertinent information I would think.

Actually, holding another citizenship may well prevent a person from obtaining a high-level security clearance in the US, something to bear in mind if you are considering applying to have your Italian citizenship recognized.

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby grandpa77 » 26 Jun 2011, 14:40

I don't want to do this process if I don't qualify either but at this point I have a choice as I didn't renounce my US citizenship yet. I did voluntarily take on another citizenship and I plan on loosing US citizenship later this year. I live overseas and I plan on walking into an Embassy with a 1 week wait time for an appointment and renounce my citizenship. However if this messes up my eligibility for my Italian citizenship I might renounce my US citizenship in 1 year or 2 after I get my Italian citizenship. It's a complex question and I don't know who would have the answer. If anyone knows where I can find this answer I would greatly appreciate it.




My only question is about your other citizenship. Did you voluntarily take another citizenship. because i know that if any of your ancestors took a foreign citizenship, they lost italian citizenship... would this also apply to you? The only reason i was granted italian citizenship is because of the fact that since my grandfather left italy, neither my mother nor myself voluntarily took another citizenship... being born in the US is automatic citizenship... I don't mean to be a downer, i just don't want you to have to go through this long expensive process only to be told that you don't qualify...

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Re: If I renounce my US citizenship does it affect eligibili

Postby mler » 26 Jun 2011, 15:12

If you received another citizenship automatically (through marriage, birth, etc.), it's not a problem. If, however, you naturalized to obtain that citizenship and did so before 1992, you lost Italian citizenship at that time. If you naturalized after 1992, it's not an issue.


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