Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with print

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Mike Mo
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Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with print

Postby Mike Mo » 11 Aug 2011, 01:12

Hello everyone,

I'm new here and I just got a copy of my GGF's birth certificate but it looks like it's printed on toilet paper.

Is this the only birth certificate I would use for my GGF when trying to apply for citizenship by decent ? Or are there 2 different types that I might need?

Thanks

See link to Birth Certificate here: Image

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby johnnyonthespot » 11 Aug 2011, 14:10

There are many types of "birth certificates" issued by Italy. The one you have, an Estratto Per Riassunto Per Atto Di Nascita, is perfectly acceptable for a citizenship application. It is an extract (estratto) of the information contained in the original, handwritten, birth act (atto di nascita).

Your's states:

The 13th day of the month of November, the year 1877
at the hour 21 and minute 0 (9:00PM)
at Sant'Arsenio
is born Lorenzo Mo
sex male
father Lorenzo (the surname Mo is implied) mother Maria Bartolo
act registered number 144, part I of the registry (of the year 1877)
There are no (nessuna) notations (Annotazioni)
Carmine

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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby Italysearcher » 11 Aug 2011, 16:24

This is an example of how outdated some government offices are here in Italy. Does anyone remember the old printers that had a tear-off strip with holes to feed it through the printer. Thats what this is!
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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby jennabet » 11 Aug 2011, 22:47

Yeah, those were machines that had what is called a "pin feed platen". Not a problem as far as I'm concerned. What's important on that document is the Anagrafe's seal. When I went to Italy to obtain my grand-father's birth certificate, they typed it up especially for me on an old, manual typewriter. It wasn't even electric and definitely not a Selectric.

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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby Mike Mo » 11 Aug 2011, 23:17

Thanks for your advise.

One more question. On my GGF's Birth certificate it says "Lorenzo" and on his Marriage certificate it says "Lorenzo" and on his death certificate is says "Lorenzo". However on my GF Birth, GF Marriage and GF Death certificate it says "Larry" (all new york certificates).

So I think I should change all these certificate from "Larry" to "Lorenzo" because I'm applying in New York. What do you think ?

If I do attempt to change the name would I need to get the INTERNATIONAL format version of Lorenzos birth certificate for presentation to New York Vital records?

Thanks

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby johnnyonthespot » 11 Aug 2011, 23:34

The New York consulate can be very picky about names, and Larry/Lorenzo sounds to me like just the sort of thing they would complain about.

On the other hand, getting marriage and death certificates changed can be problematic, especially if your grandmother is also deceased.

You can wait this out and see what the consulate demands of you, you can try to proceed with changes, or you can seek a court order of finding stating that Larry and Lorenzo were one and the same person.

None of these options are particularly easy...
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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby Mike Mo » 11 Aug 2011, 23:53

Thanks Carmine,

Thanks for the wicked fast response.

I have some private phone numbers to New York City Vital Records and it does not seem so hard to change certificates after 1910 from what they told me on the phone. They said I could even mail it in.

If I decided to change the name would it be better to use the International version of the Italian Birth certificate or would I use the Birth certificate I posted above ?

It's not an exact science but I would guess the International format would be better. What do you think ?

Thanks

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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby johnnyonthespot » 12 Aug 2011, 00:31

In my experience amending a New York State (not New York City) birth certificate, it was necessary to submit an international-format document or an Italian-format along with a certified English translation (expensive, even for a simple document!).
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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby Mike Mo » 13 Aug 2011, 00:48

Thanks Carmine,

Would you know where there is a list of "Certified Translators". Or do you have someone good ? I need to do this too.

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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby johnnyonthespot » 13 Aug 2011, 12:57

Mike Mo wrote:Thanks Carmine,

Would you know where there is a list of "Certified Translators". Or do you have someone good ? I need to do this too.


I used the following service. This was a separate project from my jure sangiunis case; my mother's birth certificate was riddled with errors and I thought it worthwhile to get it fixed. I might have spent some time shopping around for a lower fee, but I had other things going on at the time and just wanted to get this particular project off my desk.

Overall, the service was fast and accurate.

Ananda Gilbert
Project Manager Coordinator
The Language Link of CT
354 Main St., Suite 8
Newington, CT 06111 USA
ph: 800-611-7773 or +860-561-5438
fax 425-988-7688
languagelink@cox.net
www.aptranslation.com
Carmine

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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby carinthiangirl » 14 Aug 2011, 20:33

"Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with print"
what do you think - countries in europeans south are allways up-to-date?
of sure not always, but it´s normal. and toilet paper in Europe looks in another way then the paper of this italian community-office. :mrgreen: this is paper of an older pc in connection with a printing-machine. i see not any problem.... possible there also places in the US where are still in use.
there must be understanding that not everywhere in world is the same standard at same time. It sounds like an insult to the land of your ancestors. :|

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Re: Italian Birth Certificate looks like toilet paper with p

Postby KarenChristino » 14 Aug 2011, 23:54

Mike Mo wrote: However on my GF Birth, GF Marriage and GF Death certificate it says "Larry" (all new york certificates).
So I think I should change all these certificate from "Larry" to "Lorenzo" because I'm applying in New York. What do you think ?

I put in a correction to my GF's death certificate in NYC last week. I have not yet received the correction, but my impression is that it will be OK. You can make the correction if you are a descendant. I went in and they asked for my birth certificate as well as my father's to prove that. The correction application needs to be notarized -- I did that beforehand, so I'm not sure if they are able to do it while you are there. You can use your great-grandparents' marriage record to correct their names on the death certificate, but you must have a certified translation. (I translated it myself which the clerk said she could not accept, but the Italian certificate had pre-printed translations in a number of languages already, so she accepted it.) I had to buy a new D.C. as the one I had was too old to exchange.

NYC appears to have deleted the page with instructions that was online! They need original documents with seals, request a photocopy of each (she carefully compared them and took the copy). Cost is $40 + $15 for new D.C. I went in the morning on a hot day and there were not many people there -- the whole thing took a little over an hour.

Requirements: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/vr/vrdcappl.shtml
Correction Form: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/vr/vr-forms.shtml (they also made me fill out the Application for D.C. with link on this page).

If they will do it, perhaps you should ask for Larry a/k/a Lorenzo to cover all your bases and in the event you cannot change any of the other Americanized documents. Good luck!


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