Birth date discrepancy

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846newyorker
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Birth date discrepancy

Postby 846newyorker » 20 Aug 2011, 18:41

I have just received my grandfather's birth certificate, which is somewhat of a disaster in terms of matching other paperwork. His birth date is wrong (??), only an Italianized form of his name is given without a middle name, and both his parents' names are spelled with variants not used elsewhere.

I am aware I can amend the document -- his parents' names don't seem to be much of a problem -- but what about his birth date? It's hard for me to understand how the date can be off by basically a full month, and if I"m changing so much information on the document it seems I'm "creating" a person based on other records.

Does anyone know if I can amend a birth certificate to change the date so that it matches his other documents?

Also, does anyone know how to get access to, say, Social Security records to double-check what birth and death dates the federal government had for him there?

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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby johnnyonthespot » 20 Aug 2011, 18:50

Would you care to share his name and/or the year of his death?

If he died sometime after 1960'ish, you may be able to find him listed here: http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/

Otherwise, you can find how to order a copy of his social security application here http://genealogy.about.com/od/online_records/a/ss5_request.htm. Be sure to order the photocopy of the original document, not the extract.

As to the basic question, it is unlikely that the month is incorrect on the birth certificate - after all, it was created within days of his actual birth. That makes it more likely that the other, later, documents are in error. Can you give us a little more detail?
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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby 846newyorker » 20 Aug 2011, 20:23

He died in the early 1980s. My fear is that all the other documents are incorrect -- as well as the general birth date he and our family always used for him, but as to how it is a complete mystery. The birth certificate I have is an extract; my hope is that the date on it is somehow a transcription error. Of course, now I will have to get my hands on the original document to compare to the extract.

I suppose I will check back in once I've done that. But in the meantime, if the original document does have the "new" date, would I have to then amend all the other documents (marriage, death, social security)? Or if all those other documents consistently have the "old" date, would it be acceptable to just try to change the birth certificate -- and would the Italian consulate likely accept that?

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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby corrado » 21 Aug 2011, 05:25

you can amend a American birth certificate (once) so make sure you are useing the right date? is it off by much, Just one day? I think that is common. Make sure you do it right the first time, after that you have to get a judge to do it, at least in Illinois. Good luck.

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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby 846newyorker » 22 Aug 2011, 19:49

My situation now sounds like a nightmare and I'd be grateful for any help.

I've confirmed that my grandfather's birth date on file in PA is different from the birth date listed on all his other documents required by the consulate (marriage and death, in NY).

My assumption is that this will be a major obstacle for the consulate and so I will need to have documents amended or changed.

I was told I'd have to go through a judge to have the birth certificate changed in PA.

Alternatively, what about having the marriage and death certificates (in NY) amended or changed? Does anyone have any idea if this is a major undertaking, e.g. also requiring court action?

Any other tips? I'm quite discouraged. Thanks very much.

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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby johnnyonthespot » 22 Aug 2011, 19:53

New York City (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx, Staten Island)?

Or, some other community in New York state?
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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby 846newyorker » 22 Aug 2011, 20:00

Marriage is in NYC (Bronx); death is elsewhere (Yonkers).

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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby johnnyonthespot » 22 Aug 2011, 20:35

New York City seems to be going out of their way to be accommodating so maybe that one won't be too bad. See this post http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic22801.html#p166665and others like it. I know there is a phone number posted here some where; if not maybe Mike Mo will help you out.

I would be less concerned about the death certificate. Really, no one knows exactly why the consulates want them, other than to show that the person is deceased and thus not able to speak for himself regarding whether or not he/she ever renounced Italian citizenship. If your GF would be substantially more than 100 years old, you might even get away with, "I was unable to find my grandfather's death certificate; will that be a problem?"

Either way, everyone knows that death certificates are full of errors, so I wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby 846newyorker » 22 Aug 2011, 21:12

What makes this situation far worse is that the birth certificate lists his name as an Italianized form (Jiovanino) without a middle name, whereas my grandfather only ever used John and his middle name. There's no record of Jiovanino anywhere.

Basically, other than the parental information, it looks as if the birth certificate is not even for the same person.

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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby johnnyonthespot » 22 Aug 2011, 21:20

New York City probably won't mind changing the marriage certificate to match the birth certificate.

Once that has been done, you would probably need to go ahead and change your father's (?) birth certificate to show your GF's correct name so that everything matches up.

PITA, I know. Is your father (mother?) still living? Some of these changes are more easily made by the person named on the certificate or a direct descendant (son, daughter).
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Re: Birth date discrepancy

Postby 846newyorker » 22 Aug 2011, 21:34

My grandmother is still alive so that could potentially make things easier (as is my mother). PITA is right, but if I can get all this done I certainly am willing -- other family members I am less sure of.

I'm somewhat concerned about amending all these documents blindly since (I assume) once you change the document that then becomes the official version. Down the line, I wouldn't want other problems to be caused by a changed document.

Anyone know of a lawyer knowledgeable in these areas I could talk to?


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