Certificate of No Naturalization / Name Changes

[lombardo85]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking to get citizenship via F>GM>GGF. My GGF immigrated in 1902 to Trenton, NJ. I've searched NARA in NYC which has Trenton records from 1838-1967 and submitted a request to USCIS which came back negative for naturalization records even though I've listed several possible spellings. However, USCIS records only go back to 1906. I doubt he was naturalized in the 4 year interim, but I don't want to be missing any records. I called the NJ state archives and they directed me to USCIS.

Does any one have any experience with obtaining Certificates of No Record? Will that 4 year gap be a problem and how can I cover it?

Also, the name on my GGF's birth certificate is Sebastiano Castronovo but once he is in the US, it is consistently Sebastian Castranova (Also my GGM is Giuseppina and then consistently Josephine.) Do I have to amend every single record (marriage, GM's birth, death) or can I somehow amend the birth records to prove they are the same person? I'm so worried about not getting these right!

[rjnigro]

I think it would have been impossible for him to have been naturalized prior to 1907 ... there was/is a 5 year waiting period ... and even then, he would have had to prepare his Declaration of Intent as he set foot in the USA

[JJ313]

I think that it is unlikely that he naturalized prior to 1907 but not impossible. You cannot say with certainty that he was not in the country earlier and filed a declaration or did not follow the process as it was intended. What you need to do is search USCIS, NARA and the local state court where he resided. Contact the courthouse directly. Although not required by every consulate the census should give you some indication as to his status. The information is not always accurate but can be a good indicator of his status. Also check for WWI draft records.

Name discrepancies vary by consulate. Some (NY) are more particular with first name discrepancies while other consulates are more reasonable. Last name discrepancies can be a problem. Are you sure the information on the BC is correct? Communes have been known to make errors in extracts.

[rjnigro]

In that regard you could also look up the ship arrival manifest (Ellis Island . Org). At times they indicated if it was a primary or secondary visit/arrival into the USA

[lombardo85]

So I should basically have 3 Certificates of No Naturalization, correct? From NARA, USCIS and the state.

[italiangal36]

Which consulate are you going through?

[lombardo85]

I'll be going through the NYC consulate.

Also, my GGF was 7 when he arrived and I believe it was his first time in the US (I'd be amazed if it was otherwise.) Were there any differences in naturalization for a minor?

[italiangal36]

These are pretty minor discrepancies that I think most consulates would accept, but I've heard NYC is more particular about this. I'm not sure how responsive this consulate is, but before you go through all of the trouble of amending them, I would recommend contacting them to ask.

If your GGF was 7 then I'm assuming he immigrated with your GGGF to the US? If so, you'll want to check to see if your GGGF was naturalized before July 1, 1912. There is a rule some consulates enforce that basically states if the parents naturalized before this date, their minor children lost Italian citizenship. I believe NY is one of the consulates that strictly enforces this, so you will likely need to bring proof that this did not happen.

One final note. I noticed you were going through your grandmother. Was your father born after 1948?

[lombardo85]

My father was born in 1950 so all good there. My GGF did immigrate with his parents so I guess I'll have to check that as well.

After hearing some horror stories about the NYC consulate, I'm considering switching to the Newark consulate. I maintain a home in NJ and that is the address on my drivers license, so maybe Newark would be better. Does anyone have any experience with Newark?

[JJ313]

You will need to do a search for your GGGF (USCIS, NARA and local court). If he naturalized prior to 1912 you will not qualify.

You must apply at the consulate where you reside and it sounds like you reside in NJ. That is good news as you would avoid NY if at all possible.

[priere]

Someone correct me if I miss-rememeber this but there are really two categories of minor children. The first is a child who emigrated with their parent(s) and the second is a child who was born on US soil.

The 1912 rule applies to both cases of children: citizenship lost if father naturalised before the 1912 date.

After 1912 so long as the child was born before naturalisation of the father and on US soil then they had both citizenships at birth. If the child was born in Italy and the father naturalised before the child was emancipated then the child lost Italian citizenship and gained US citizenship with their father.

In this case they will need to look at both the GGF and GGGF for naturalisation because as the GGF was so young when they arrived in the US there is a very good chance the consulate will ask for both if they can't find naturalisation records for the GGF.

[italiangal36]

I don't really think it matters where they were born. My understanding is, if the parents naturalized before mid-1912 and they had minor children, the children lost their Italian citizenship, regardless of where they were born (as you said). If the parents naturalized after mid-1912, it does not matter if the children were born in Italy or in the U.S. As long as the parents naturalized after they were born (or never naturalized), the children received Italian citizenship and maintained it even if the parents naturalized while they were still minors.

If Lombardo85 finds that his GGGF naturalized after the 1912 cutoff date, then he should just need to present this proof along with the statements others have mentioned that his GGF never naturalized.

[lombardo85]

Ugh, what a bummer! Every time I think I've reached the end of researching my GGF's naturalization, I hit some new hiccup. I guess that's just the nature of this process.

[JJ313]

The 1912 law creates two categories of minors those born in Italy and those born in the US. If the parent of an unemancipated minor were to naturalize before 7/1/1912 all lost Italian citizenship. If the naturalization occurred after this date the children born in the US would retain Italian citizenship while those born in Italy would lose it as they would gain citizenship through the father's naturalization. To correct my post above, if your GGGF naturalized prior to to your GGF's 21st birthday your GGF would have lost Italian citizenship. If your GGF was emancipated (in the armed services, married or otherwise living on his own) then he would not have lost citizenship.

[italiangal36]

JJ313, would you mind sharing where you got the information about the different treatments of US VS Italian born minors? In my research, I have not seen anything that indicated it mattered where the child was born whether before or after 1912, so if this is still the case, I would imagine this would be something that would be very helpful to others. I started a blog with the intention of helping others going through this process (www.italiancitizenshipforamericans.com) and would like to write about this topic.