All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
12 posts • Page 1 of 1

All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby tlisti » 03 Feb 2012, 02:49

I have meeting set in Houston, May 22, and believe I have cleared up almost all problems:

1. Name Change:cleared up.
GGF Death certificate amended showing Italian name (Filippo Listi) aka: Americanized name (Philip Lester), and also adding Parents names shown on Italian birth certificate, and correcting date of birth to 1859.

2. No Naturalization:cleared up.
Through all my research, I found absolutely no indication that my GGF ever naturalized. I am absolutely sure he did not. I have letters and emails from NARA and USCIS stating "no records" found for my GGF. I received 1953 Naturalization papers from NCSIS for my GGF's youngest son, Augustino (my GF's brother). He was born in Italy in early 1888, and immigrated with his parents to New Orleans in late 1888. His naturalization application clearly states his parents (by name, both italian and americanized) were never US citizens.

3. My GF's Birth Certificate: Problem: I have all necessary documents apostiled and ready for translation, with the exception of my GF's BC. The state of Texas didn't require the recording of births until 1903. My GF was born in (by midwife, at home) in 1905, but the birth was never recorded. I have an old, old copy of a Texas BC that was filled out and signed with "her mark" +, but was apparently never recorded, because the state has no record. I believe the intention was to request a delayed BC, but they never followed through. My mother gave me this document that has been around since at least 1943. My husband, and attorney says that there may be a "rule of antiquity" law, that my somehow legitimize the document I have. If not, then what should I submit to Houston Consulate for his birth record, as I have nothing but this old document?

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks for your help. I'm so close
User avatar
tlisti
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 23:19

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby kontessa » 03 Feb 2012, 09:42

This is just an opinion, but if your GF is in your direct line, you need to have something to offer the consulate in Houston. Do you have an official baptismal certificate? Since you already have an attorney, why not attempt to have the state of TX create a delayed birth record based on the record that you already have (supplying supplemental evidence as well, like SS records, military records, etc)? Also, have the attorney give you a final answer about whether or not the record can now be legalized (your ref to rules of antiquity).

I was in a similar situation in NYS, and was told that having a delayed birth record was impossible - both by the state and my attorney. However, while searching through town records a few months later, I discovered a delayed birth record for another individual that had been created many years after their birth. My attorney then used this record to pressure the state to do the same for my GF.

Sounds like you might have some choices to resolve your problem...try to legalize the old document that you have, try to have a delayed birth record created, or try to find a baptismal certificate. Time to get busy! :D Good luck!
User avatar
kontessa
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 304
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 19:05

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby tlisti » 03 Feb 2012, 17:24

Kontessa,

Thanks for the information. One question: The State of Texas has told me that a delayed birth certificate can only be created if the person in question is still living.

In the delayed BC you found, was it created before, or after, that person was deceased?

Thanks again!
User avatar
tlisti
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 23:19

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby kontessa » 03 Feb 2012, 20:37

tlisti wrote:Kontessa,

Thanks for the information. One question: The State of Texas has told me that a delayed birth certificate can only be created if the person in question is still living.

In the delayed BC you found, was it created before, or after, that person was deceased?

Thanks again!

The NYS delayed birth record that I found was created before the death of the individual in question. However, the delayed record that I had created for my GF was done after his death - exactly 100 years after his birth. If TX doesn't allow this, what about trying to pressure the attorney to legalize the document that you already have?
User avatar
kontessa
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 304
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 19:05

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby tlisti » 04 Feb 2012, 01:28

Good idea! Did your attorney go through the courts, or state vital records offices?
User avatar
tlisti
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 23:19

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby kontessa » 04 Feb 2012, 02:43

Dealings were directly with the NYS Dept of Health - no court order needed.
User avatar
kontessa
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 304
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 19:05

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby JJ313 » 04 Feb 2012, 23:34

In order to have a delayed birth record you will need to have more proof of your GF's birth. Take a look at the delayed birth record registration page http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/delayed/default.shtm to see what sort of proof you will need if you wish to have a court force the Dept. of Health to record the delayed birth. You do not qualify for this procedure which is why they told you it can't be done and why you will need to go to court. I recommend that you locate a baptismal record as that will in all likelihood be sufficient to satisfy Houston. You should also try to get a copy of his SS application and military record if any.

The document that you have cannot be legitimized merely by the passage of time. Unfortunately, there is no one alive that can corroborate the document or testify to its authenticity. I would still try and offer it as additional evidence to the consulate.
JJ313
Veteran
Veteran
 
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 06:25

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby italiangal36 » 07 Mar 2012, 10:12

Question- have you emailed the Houston Italian Consulate with your situation to see what they recommend/require? If you haven't, I recommend doing this first just to make sure the extra effort is even required. They may have other suggestions as well.
italiangal36
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 06 Aug 2011, 19:16

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby tlisti » 07 Mar 2012, 16:26

I have asked about this subject and got no response. However, when I asked for translators, they responded quickly...so I assumed they just wouldn't answer any specific questions by email. Maybe I'll try again.
User avatar
tlisti
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 23:19

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby pcarmody » 24 May 2012, 05:15

We have the same problem: can't locate birth cert for direct line GF. We know he was born in NYS in 1902. We have a census record listing him in 1910, his marriage certificate, his death certificate, his SSN information, his military records, and his father's certificate of naturalization (after he was born TG), and interestingly, a letter from the Director of Census from 1943 detailing his existence on the 1910 census. We think the latter was provided as proof of birth for SS and Military Service.

Perhaps kontessa, or others on this great forum, would be kind enough to share what exactly we need to do to create a birth record for GF. Otherwise we are toast.

Thanks much.
pcarmody
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 24 May 2012, 05:01

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby kontessa » 24 May 2012, 14:30

User avatar
kontessa
Elite
Elite
 
Posts: 304
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 19:05

Re: All problems cleared...but one Birth Certificate! help!

Postby tlisti » 24 May 2012, 17:54

I had my meeting with the Houston Consulate and they accepted baptismal information. It was better than I thought, and they were great!

The Catholic Church keeps great records for the most part. They have archivists that will help. Maybe try them before going to the courts.
User avatar
tlisti
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 02 Oct 2010, 23:19


12 posts • Page 1 of 1

Return to Emigration, Immigration, Naturalization and Italian citizenship

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest

Copyright © 2014. www.ItalianGenealogy.com.